What's so great about being a woman?

[ghostlyghoulie]

Ok, so am being slightly tongue in cheek and expecting some funny answers, but... am also wondering how many wonderful reasons I can put to teenage daughter wanting to trans to male.

Boobs

On a more serious note,why not talk to her why she thinks it's so great being a man,and what bits about being a woman she rejects/dislike. Then you can tackle those.

I remember wishing i was a boy,simply because girls were treated appallingly growing up and there was blatant sexism and unfairness. The way i behaved,thought and acted was no big deal,or even expected from a male but a big no-no as a female.

Does she want to trans for social or physical reasons? Does she want a penis and her breasts removed, or does she just want to cut her hair, wear trousers and be called Mike?

If it's physical transition she's after then the approach will be quite different to if it were social transition (I believe it's called).

Which bits is it that she wants about being a man? What makes her believe she is one? And most importantly - what does she think will change when she transitions? There's a certain amount of pragmatism here as well as to what the results might be.

How old is she?

Thank you all for your messages. It's given me lots to think about and some good ideas too. However, I have also made a note to myself not to post on MN when drunk again! I realise now that I'm not that comfortable giving too many details about our situation here. So I'm not ignoring you, QueenOfTheSardines, but just think it's better I withdraw now.

ghostlyghoulie not wishing to be cruel, but if you have spent xmas 'cooking, cleaning, serving others' then no wonder your daughter thinks being a woman looks like being dealt a shite hand.

My mum can be a very selfish woman, which ironically in some ways made her a great role model - she never ran round after other people, so I never grew up thinking I would have to - and I don't.

Maybe start role modelling for your daughter that being born female does not have to equal skivvy? It will benefit you as well.

Maybe start role modelling for your daughter that being born female does not have to equal skivvy? It will benefit you as well.

Absolutely. There is no genetic reason for this despite what one might think reading MN

Women are fortunate because they can do any job (except perhaps very very physical ones) and have children, or not. women have more options.
Women are statistically less violent and less likely to be a slave to their sexual urges. So life is easier!
We can dress up as we wish, unlike men, where it is a big deal if they wear a dress.
We do have periods which is a massive pain but it is something that can be dealt with.

Sorry I'm come to this thread a bit late but had thought about the issue for a while.

My main argument to your daughter from my own experience is that the secret of happiness, or at least contentment, is accepting your reality. If you are female then adopting a male persona, taking hormones, God forbid binders or surgery, will never make you happy. Your daughter will only find peace by understanding and living her truth, whether she's a lesbian or gender nonconforming. She's female, with a female body. Being trans is an ephemeral trend. We recently had a thread where there were 5 transmen in one school year, ffs. Ten years ago this phenomena was unknown. Girls transitioning is a terrifying fashion, but it is a fashion. We just have to hope we can steer girls away from making long-term changes to their bodies. It's a hell of a lot more dangerous than becoming a punk or a Goth.

It's very noticeable that the only transwomen who seem at ease with themselves are the ones who are happy to acknowledge that they are male and that this can never be changed.

I had lots of body issues when young, though never wanted to be a man. It took time and effort to get to a place where I was comfortable in my own skin. But that is the secret. Loving your own flawed female body, and owning it.

It's not that being a woman is all that different from being a man. We're all people first. Being a woman isn't very important to me, I'm Prawn, and I am a woman. It's a fact not an identity. But - and this is the important bit - I never feel the need to lie about or reject who I am. Being transgender is all about pretending to be someone you are not. It's the opposite of being at ease with who you are, and as such can never result in security or long-term happiness.

I am with Lass on this, trying to make out that the universal experience of being a women is worse than being a man is plain daft. It's well known that if you castrate males (of all species) they will develop completely different personalities, so there are massive and not well understood (by women) changes going on for teenage boys also. Who's really to say which is more frightening or "worse" ?

Sorry can't think of any. Only that it's somewhat better to be a woman now than in history.

Seriously "WTF "?!! growapear

Well pheonix , we are getting there albeit slowly..

Sorry ?

I think if we could eradicate street harassment / leering / propositioning of young girls by older men all over the world then that would make growing up much much better for girls.

I do not believe that boys experience this stuff in the same way.

While it is true that women don't know what it's like for boys, and they don't know what it's like for us, isn't this part of the point? If you are unhappy with how things are / how they are heading / what is happening then it feels like an "out" and whatever anyone says there is surely no argument that many of the difficult things for girls do not happen to boys. So, in the absence of knowing what the bad stuff is on the other side, you see an option of opting out of periods, breasts, and being leered at, and you go for it.

This seems quite obvious to me. Or is the argument that periods, growing breasts, and becoming the focus of inappropriate sexual attention (even if it's just looking up and down / staring) when just going about your daily business are not entirely / predominantly things that girls face rather than boys?

I also think that worldwide the universal experience of being female is worse than being male, isn't it?

If not, why are we bothering with feminism? I mean, honestly, if the starting point is "things are different but the same for both sexes and neither has a worse time than the other" then you're in quiverfull / territory and you're not going to agree with any of this.

The american ones at least are seen by many to be hitting the gay eugenics thing - it's more acceptable to have a straight trans child than a gay child. If you believe that the sexes have fundamental differences then it makes perfect sense that a boy who plays with dolls must be a girl. If your beliefs are that homosexuality is evil - then you're doing them a favour.

It's interesting the stats about trans / gay crossover (that so many trans kids if left alone end up being gay and quite happy). My best guess is that it's something to so with heterosexuality being such a core component of gender roles.

I don't think pear believes that feminism is a good thing for his world, Queen

Women, as a class, have it worse than men, as a class. There will always be individual men and women who are doing better or worse than the norm for their sex, and the degree of difference varies internationally. Women in Saudi Arabia have a far worse time than women here.

The onset of menstruation is pretty unpleasant for most girls, I would guess. I know I had fewer problems than some of my peers but I vividly recall the possibility of humiliation because of leaks or smell. Then there's male attention, which starts in your early teens. Eventually I learned strategies but the hassle I got from 13 onwards was horrible, both revolting and frightening. I soon picked up that if anything happened it was likely to be considered my fault, either because I hadn't escaped or because I had handled it badly.

And that's just part of the obstacles girls face in their teens. Plenty to add to that, things that make life more limited or challenging for women.

However difficult it may be to grow up as a woman, you can't escape it by deciding you're a man. I know there are plenty of young women who have detransitioned, having realised that they are lesbians rather than men. There are plenty of gay men in the public eye, but very few lesbian role models, and small lesbian communities report being invaded by MTTs who describe themselves as lesbian. All it takes is one difficult character and groups gradually break up, hence the outrage over the "cotton ceiling".

My worst problem as a teenage girl was acne. But that problem was shared by boys.
Now it seems to be hell on earth because of the Internet, online porn and people like the Kardashians.

I am on board with the trans stuff, but what comes across from your posts is that you don't like being women in our society. Not all women feel like that.

Also there are plenty of groups who will claim that being a male is worse and they will cite various stats and provide ancedata to support it. What good does it do anybody to argue about who has it the shittest, when in reality it's actually a great time to be alive ?

I'll give you a clue, Growapear. You're on the Feminism Chat board. The regular posters here clearly don't agree that men have it worse. If you are interested in Men's Rights Activism you will find more takers elsewhere. MRA isn't a feminist priority.

growapear that's a bit of a mixture of things.

I would say that I didn't like the way girls were treated in our society when I was growing up. That was the case for me, personally, and the reason that I have always been a feminist.

That's got nothing to do with "liking" being female in and of itself - it's just what it is.

I have never had any desire to be a man. I always saw myself as a person. Which I think is why it was always so jarring when random men would decide to remind me I was female by eg telling me to show them my tits. I hated that.

So I suppose that yes, I don't like being "a woman in our society" I want to be a person who happens to be a female of our mammalian species in our society.

Since the age of invisibility hit it's wonderful - and it's a taste of the difference between being a person in our society and a girl/woman in her main reproductive years.