The use of cis gender

[Ollycat]

I've read the trans threads and they've definitely been an eye opener! I would say I'm definitely Spartacus!

Can someone enlighten me on the whole cis thing? When did it start becoming prevalent and who was the driving force behind it? The phrase cis woman is something I find quite disturbing- I am a woman plain and simple- not something which needs a quantifier.

Sorry if this is really basic stuff but am intrigued as to how this sort of terminology has become a "thing" and how it's becoming ok for men to define/ explain to women what it means to be a woman?

Genuinely confused and shocked about the whole thing.

Cats would all be radfems anyway, because cats have no time for bullshit.

I was going to say my cat is too lazy to be online because he's male (dreadful sexist joke alert) but then I realised he had his bits removed 12 years ago so, let me see, if I have this correct, he's a mtf transcat. Is that right?!

Cats would all be radfems anyway, because cats have no time for bullshit.

Anarcho-fems more like it!

Long live the catarchy!

Saw this today - someone's fixed that awful national geographic cover

Yes, I love the new cover. And it is gay eugenics, or it is for a lot of trans kids. Anyone who hasn't had a read should try Datalounge where the gay men are very clear about the damage being done by the trans agenda to gay and lesbian kids. Very outspoken, and funny with it.

It is so frustrating because it could have been so good. All the men in dresses and boys in pink challenging toxic masculinity, all the girls with short hair refusing to bend to a controlling stereotype.

I was so naive years ago and I thought that this was what trans meant, I didn't realise that I was being reduced to the stereotype that I've fought all my life or even worse a thought in a mans head. I didn't realise that it meant I may lose the right to privacy, dignity and safety.

The Datalounge thread about Howard Stern & Caitlyn Jenner is very funny. Am not going to link as it almost certainly breaks at least 10 MN rules but it's worth a look.

Go on! Half the stuff linked to on here breaks the average "transphobia" guidelines but thanks will google when I am home.

For the hard of thinking, as there are plenty on this forum: When I'm emoji grinning btw, I'm not supporting actual transphobia. In the same way Chris Morris's Brass Eye didn't actually promote paedophilia. HTH.

that's nonce sense, venus

Some of what presumably breaches the MN.guidelines are direct quotes from TRA themselves, whether on YouTube or on, for example, Reddit asktransgender. I don't think anyone can criticize us for repeating what they say.

queen your posts on this thread are the business

Hear, hear, Devi. Queen's posts on other trans-related threads are shit hot too.

This is a fantastic article written by a member if the trans community about why the term "cis" is so damaging. Well worth a read.
genderapostates.com/cissexism-and-you/

Great link ruby. It feels like a lot of manipulative gas lighting the way cis is becoming accepted.

Because in general usage, it means 'not trans', But if you flag this, the subtlety steps in by informing you that it actually means you are comfortable with your assigned gender. But many people are uncomfortable with that assigned gender and do not consider themselves trans. So what word under the trans-ideology, is left for them? (gender nonconforming, uterus-bearing female?)

The starting point always seems to be the trans-ideology, and words flow from there, at a rate of knots, being ever more refined and redefined to make the ideology paramount to everything else - Cis, constant checking of privilege, othering, bigot, TERF, truscum - all of them designed to place the trans-ideology at the top of the tree and everyone else has to re-jiggle their entire vocabulary to fit it. And you're talking a tiny minority!

It's quite breathtaking in its scope. If I wasn't so annoyed I'd be admiring.

I am transgender and have posted a few times on here before

I present as society would "expect" a woman to present. I dress in a way that society would associate with women. I act in a way that society would associate with women.

But I'm not a woman. I'm a male who is transgender.

Why does society have the upper hand here? Society didn't create male and female. Society didn't create men and women.

i hate the use of the word "cis". Women don't need an extra word in order to be identified. I wish I was a woman. Born a woman, but the fact is that i was not, and so those that are born female don't need to accommodate me. I am the one who needs an extra word in order to be identified. I'm not a woman, yet I want to be, and be respectfully regarded as one, but I'm not one. So I need a word that separates me from being Male. A word that describes who I actually am. And the word transwoman works just fine. It is a word that identifies me, works to eliminate my status as male, and works as a word that connotes that while not a woman in a biological sense, I can be regarded as a woman in a constructed sense. It's a word that I'm proud to own - my own struggles are testament to that, and it's a word that identifies me truthfully. It is, in short, a word that works for the likes of me.

Women don't need a qualifier to be regarded as women. The word Cis is unnecessary and I can totally understand why people would find it offensive. Women should not be categorised because of the existence of people like me. On the contrary, people like me are the ones who need to be categorised separately.

Thank you ripples.

Yes, thank you, Ripples. Yours is a reasonable and understandable position with which I have no issue. We can be allies.

As a feminist I inevitably support gender non-conformity, but that's not what the trans activists are about. They're regressive, not progressive and I am outraged by their nonsense. Their campaigns damage women's interests and, as a consequence, we find ourselves in a position of unequivocal opposition.

At present it seems that TRAs are getting things all their own way, but in the long term I suspect that the results of much of their advocacy will be so damaging that there will be a significant backlash, and people like you, Ripples, will be hurt. To counteract this, it seems that those transwomen who do not support the TRA agenda are going to be forced to speak up, to provide an alternative narrative.

Hello Ripples

Reading your post, I let out a little sigh of relief. The conflict would disappear if more transwomen were like you.

I've been giving a lot of thought to this. I can totally understand how presenting as a woman gives you options you didn't have as a man. A transwoman on here once said it allowed him to be more 'vibrant'. Which is great. If, in our current gender limiting society, you can present in any way you like, that's got to be good. It's the insistence on actually being a woman and having all women's rights, experience and the very definition of the word just handed over when problems start.

I like it that you consider the word transwoman to accurately reflect your experience.

I still think 'presenting' as a 'woman' reinforces gender stereotypes that have historically been damaging to women. Presenting as 'feminine' would work though. Could I ask why this doesn't tend to happen? Does it simply not have the same value? If presenting as feminine doesn't work as well as presenting as a woman, is that because peoples' perception of you as a female means you are treated differently than if you were just a man presenting as feminine?

Ripples - thank you for that post. I found the idea that you are proud to own the word "transwoman" really moving - that it reflects your history, your struggles, who you are now, how you came to be that person.

MostlyHet

Thank you. I actually feel more proud to be able to say that I am a transwoman than I have ever felt saying that I am a man. I have never identified as a woman, because I'm not one. I wish I was, but the word transwoman encapsulates me perfectly, and more to the point, enables others to completely understand who I am. It works.

I never quite understood why the trans "movement" wants to seemingly eliminate the word trans. It's who we are. I own the word trans. Because it's who I am.

I do however see the potential problem in being identified purely through gender (which is given more importance than being simply regarded as a individual), and that leads me into the point that Datun mentioned. When I wrote my post, I was deliberate in the choice of words I used in my 2nd paragraph. I totally understand how the words that I did chose could result in others asking why I would chose such words.

Words such as "present" , "act" as a woman.

Being a woman isnt presenting. Being a woman isn't acting. I know that full well. It is because I'm not a woman however that I do have to use such words. And that is what differentiates me. That is why I need the word trans. Because that word serves three functions. It separates me from my own male biological identity. It distances me from women. And at the same time it perfectly encapsulates who I actually am.

So I own the word transwoman. It distinguishes me and it says exactly who I am. And the best bit is, people are now accepting me because I'm being honest with them. I'm not a woman. I'm not a man. I'm a transwoman and when I say that to people there is no confusion.

I'd like to expand on my comment in my last paragraph.

I'm not a woman in a biological sense.

I'm not a man in a social sense.

I kind of reside between the two. Wanting to be regarded in a societal sense as a woman, but recognising that Im not actually a woman. I do wish I was born female. I don't like the fact that I was born male.

That is a burden on my own shoulders and my own shoulders alone. it is my bug to bear so to speak. All I ask for is acceptance. That acceptance however doesn't mean that have any right to encroach on others. All I want is to be able to be honest and for others to accept my honesty. And I'm confident that if I am honest, then others will accept me.

If I'm not honest, if I try to be something I'm not, then I can totally understand why people would have a problem with that.

ripples amazing posts.

Ripples - would that more had your wisdom and grace. Well, fwiw I think you've found a small corner of the Internet here glad to accept an honest transwoman.

I rather like Prawn's phrase from up thread.
Feminists are never "cis".

Kind of sums it up very succinctly for me - is it used widely?