Third wave feminism

[Tiredeyes89]

Long time lurker here, this is my first post so please excuse if I'm not very coherent just wondering what the general consensus on third wave/intersectional feminists are? I ask because today I saw a post on a feminist Facebook page about the situation in Aleppo, and a woman had commented asking what kind of freedom did the civilians want,which was a bizarre question I though. When someone suggested she might want to do some research about the conflict in Syria she replied to the poster that as a black woman she didn't need to educate herself, and that people only care about the Syrian conflict and the staggering number of civilian deaths because they are white and she wanted to know if the Syrian civilians wanted freedom for " the black folk trans folk and genderqueer folk ". If not, then she wasn't particularly bothered. I was astounded by it all and anyone who disagreed with her was racist, and transphobic. I have this awful feeling third wave feminism is dragging us backwards, almost like it's come about to keep us busy fighting amongst ourselves rather than the patriarchy...any thoughts? (Sorry if I've ranted on abit!)

Fruit Cider

Why are you using the word prostitute? Just because you use quotations doesn't mean you haven't used the word.

Can you rephrase your post using less offensive language? I am really interested to see what that would look like.

I've not once used the term "sex worker" myself

Then what term would you use ? "Women" applies to 50 % of the population and "people" is 100% so hardly helpful in any discussion about prostitution.

I want to see the abolition of prostitution.

Then what term would you use?

Prostitute with quotations which apparently makes it okay, as demonstrated in the previous couple of posts.

I see it as women choose, woman does.
Ie. Woman chooses to go on page 3, so I have no issue with it. I would rather it be page 69 than page 3 IYSWIM, but you get the idea grin
2nd wave would say that its wrong and unfeminist and holding back all of woman kind to allow someone to model topless.
To me 3rd wave is a lot more to do with allowing individual differences, actions and attitudes between woman than 2nd wave which is more about whats feminist and whats not.

Second wave feminists did not all speak with one voice and it wasn't all about 'what's feminist and what's not'. Over twenty-five years of movement writings, debates, books, journal articles and academic analysis was not all about that. The second wave was deeply complex, and feminists were often divided over a range of issues, producing many different, well thought through and defended positions, some of which changed and shifted over time.

Some liberal and a few marxist feminists would have been OK with a Page 3 girl. Others would have struggled with the complex issues of individual rights v. greater goods and / or with issues of structure and agency in shaping the world that women live in and in which such choices were made. Few, even liberal feminists, would have argued that choice happens in a vacuum.

I think that TWF is liberal feminism with doses of neoliberalism and postmodernism and without capacity or desire for real analysis.

I have serious issues with the word "Chav" I would never say-

I also view "chav" as a slur. As do many "chavs".

I would say

I also view "chav" as a slur. As do many people from my background who are being labelled for the way they dress and their socio-economic background.

People that exchange sex for money is the phrase I use. I've used it many times. I'm using the term "prostitute" so you understand what I am referring to. The speech marks indicate it is not a term I would use.

The reductionist views and the lobbying by white middle class women on subjects they do not really understand is quite worrying.

The reductionist views and the lobbying by white middle class women on subjects they do not really understand is quite worrying.

How on earth do you know we are all white and middle-class?

I also view "prostitute" as a slur. As do many "prostitutes".

But many don't.

The reductionist views and the lobbying by white middle class women on subjects they do not really understand is quite worrying. good lefty put down there, well done

I'm using the term "prostitute" so you understand what I am referring to.

Indeed, because it is incredibly difficult to discuss without using an agreed upon term. Hence my post earlier about language being used against women to stymie debate.

good lefty put down there, well done

I'm about as left as you can get! I don't view radical feminism as left wing. Interesting, that...

How on earth do you know we are all white and middle-class?

That made me so furious I just had to ignore it because I couldn't answer without swearing a lot. I count ex-prostitutes in my family (ex because they are now dead, way too young-both addicts).

I don't view radical feminism as left wing.

You also view "prostitute" as a slur.

I mean if you are just going to make statement that make utterly no sense and only offer only tautological reasoning as evidence I am not really sure how much further we can go.

Ok, in future I will be sure to type "people that exchange sex for money". Seems a bit unnecessary as that is literally the dictionary definition of prostitute but hey ho. Maybe I could acronym it.

DeviTheGaelet

Not good enough, "people that exchange sex for money" is just another way of saying prostitute which is just another way of saying whore. You are basically just calling women whores if you acknowledge prostitution at all. Best just not talk about it. Maybe it will just all get better?

I think ( happy to be corrected as not an expert by any means) that the term 'sex worker' implies an equality with other forms of work e.g a farm worker and all that that gives the worker in terms of protected rights under the law. In countries where prostitution is legal this is a no brainer and in countries where it's not, it's more of a target or serves as a reminder that people who sell a service are worthy of certain rights.

I should add, in case it's not clear, that I fully support the rights of sex workers to go about their business with protection under the law. Legalisation means regulation and ideally an end to practices under which people are exploited.

In countries where prostitution is legal this is a no brainer and in countries where it's not, it's more of a target or serves as a reminder that people who sell a service are worthy of certain rights

Prostitution is legal in the UK and as far as I am aware most European countries probably. Other than countries operating a religious based legal system the act of selling sex may well be legal in most countries

What is not legal in the UK is what Scot Pep refer to as "the management" i. e the pimps and brothel keepers or soliciting publicly on the street.

Selling sex or being a prostitute is not a job like any other.

I can't begin to understand why you think any one on here thinks prostitutes are less worthy of human rights but calling prostitution "sex work" does not stop prostitution being commercial sexual exploitation.

I think ( happy to be corrected as not an expert by any means) that the term 'sex worker' implies an equality with other forms of work e.g a farm worker and all that that gives the worker in terms of protected rights under the law. In countries where prostitution is legal this is a no brainer and in countries where it's not, it's more of a target or serves as a reminder that people who sell a service are worthy of certain rights.

I'm sat here applauding you.

Yes, in an ideal world people would not sell sex. But whilst they do, they need protection of the law.

Legalisation means regulation and ideally an end to practices under which people are exploited

So that would mean prostitutes would wear the same level of protective clothing as any other worker who comes into contact with body fluids.

If self employed they or their employers (aka pimps) would register under the VAT system.

Brothels would require planning consent.

Enid my comment was not directed at anyone in particular on this thread. It was just my $0.02 worth on the nomenclature.
No offence intended.

Sorry that last comment was for Lass

So that would mean prostitutes would wear the same level of protective clothing as any other worker who comes into contact with body fluids.

If self employed they or their employers (aka pimps) would register under the VAT system.

Brothels would require planning consent.

Yes, I am in favour of this. I think PPE should be encouraged!

Women trafficked for sex are not working legally are they? Massive contradiction right there.