Third wave feminism

[Tiredeyes89]

Long time lurker here, this is my first post so please excuse if I'm not very coherent just wondering what the general consensus on third wave/intersectional feminists are? I ask because today I saw a post on a feminist Facebook page about the situation in Aleppo, and a woman had commented asking what kind of freedom did the civilians want,which was a bizarre question I though. When someone suggested she might want to do some research about the conflict in Syria she replied to the poster that as a black woman she didn't need to educate herself, and that people only care about the Syrian conflict and the staggering number of civilian deaths because they are white and she wanted to know if the Syrian civilians wanted freedom for " the black folk trans folk and genderqueer folk ". If not, then she wasn't particularly bothered. I was astounded by it all and anyone who disagreed with her was racist, and transphobic. I have this awful feeling third wave feminism is dragging us backwards, almost like it's come about to keep us busy fighting amongst ourselves rather than the patriarchy...any thoughts? (Sorry if I've ranted on abit!)

Sorry fruit I'm trying to get why prostitute is so bad and I really don't. Descriptors are a necessary part of language otherwise no one has a clue what's being discussed. Prostitute means someone who sells sex for money and doesn't seem offensive, unlike other terms like whore/hooker and even street walker.
The article you linked to seems to imply that sex workers would like to reserve "prostitute" for women who've been trafficked. I'd define those women as slaves as they aren't freely exchanging sex for money.
To me the term sex workers is an umbrella term that includes the group "prostitutes" or "people who sell sex for money". I think insisting on refusing to use the term prostitute is being euphemistic.

Sorry fruit I'm trying to get why prostitute is so bad and I really don't. Descriptors are a necessary part of language otherwise no one has a clue what's being discussed. Prostitute means someone who sells sex for money and doesn't seem offensive, unlike other terms like whore/hooker and even street walker.

You don't get it because you are not listening. Prostitute = slur. You may as well call these people whores, as that is what prostitute means.

I am listening. I don't understand why prostitute = slur though. Your link didn't help. I tried to explain why I don't understand so there is no need to be like that

Prostitute = slur. Unless you are a "prostitute", what gives you the right to determine what this group of people are called?!?!?

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a dictionary?

Let us say your job is cooking food in a commercial kitchen- you are a chef or a cook. If your job is delivering that food to customers at tables you are a waiter.

If you are the person standing up in front of a class of 5 year olds teaching them how to read and write you are a teacher.

I am a solicitor- society, the dictionary and my professional body names me as such.

I completely agree with Devi.

Not all charities and others who work with prostitutes use terms like sex work.

See for example

spaceinternational.ie/mission/

There are many others too.

English Collective of Prostitutes - prostitutescollective
prostitutescollective.net/

This charity uses both terms on its website.

No, but many third-wavers claim that it is one of the factors that distinguishes the third from the second wave.

And this overlooks the strong elements of intersectional feminism that have historically been part of the second wave. The US Civil Rights Movement helped give birth to the second wave Women's Movement in the US, and many second wave feminists, especially in the American South, where I am from, would identify as intersectional feminists.

From your description, Garden, 3rd wave doesn't sound like feminism at all. Feminism, to me, only makes sense as a class analysis. Saying "everything a woman does is feminist because it's a woman doing it" gives you no meaning for the word feminist.

If you don't believe me, try defining the word in a way that, using your definition, doesn't mean anything done by a woman for any reason.

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a dictionary?

Not at all. However all of the words "trans exclusive radical feminist" are in the dictionary and that is a slur, radical feminists cannot have it both ways I am afraid.

You carry on calling street sex workers whores. I'll refer to them as "women" or "people".

I tried to explain why I don't understand so there is no need to be like that

I've explained several times that prostitute is a synonym for whore. I'm still confused as to which bit of that sentence you do not understand. If you break it down a bit further I will explain it to you.

2nd wave would say that its wrong and unfeminist and holding back all of woman kind to allow someone to model topless.
I think second wavers are more about analysing the context in which someone might want to model top less and concluding that it's to do with objectification of women in a male dominated society and therefore not a desirable thing from a feminist perspective. I don't think it's about "allowing" it.

Or men, I assume, Fruit?

You carry on calling street sex workers whores.
No one did. We called them prostitute.
You saying prostitute and whore are synonymous so we shouldn't use either isn't helpful. It's a bit like saying nigger is synonymous with black so we can't say either. In which case how can we talk about the issues affecting black people?

Or men, I assume, Fruit?

Yes hence "people". Although in reality most "prostitutes" are women.

No one did. We called them prostitute.You saying prostitute and whore are synonymous so we shouldn't use either isn't helpful. It's a bit like saying nigger is synonymous with black so we can't say either. In which case how can we talk about the issues affecting black people?

Black is not a slur. You have missed the point spectacularly.

You carry on calling street sex workers whores. I'll refer to them as "women" or "people

No one apart from you has done that as you apparently think where and prostitute are synonymous.

You also ignore the fact that "sex worker" includes the "management " side of the " sex industry".

My point is prostitute isn't a slur
Whore = slur, prostitute = description
Nigger = slur, black = description

What is an acceptable term to you that exclusively describes people who sell sex for money?

Yes hence "people". Although in reality most "prostitutes" are women

I don't know why you are wittering on about "people"- no one has said anything about prostitutes or prostituted men or women not being people.

You have been given 3 examples of organisations which use the term prostitution including explanations why.

Sex worker is a synonym for prostitute. So why isn't that offensive?

I am utterly baffled by the cognitive dissonance.

Again language being used to blur and mitigate womens issues. We can't say female, we (as women) can't define "woman", now we can't say prostitute.

It's an incredibly effective way to stymie debate about these issues.

Prostitute = slur. Unless you are a "prostitute", what gives you the right to determine what this group of people are called?!?!? This is why some types of feminism, particularly those crowded by white middle class women, will never be intersectional.

What gives you the right? We've already established that some women exploited by prostitution prefer the term 'prostitute'.

I've explained several times that prostitute is a synonym for whore.

Words don't have intrinsic meaning either. 'Sex worker' is open to as much stigma as 'prostitute' and is also a synonym.

Definition is from

I've not once used the term "sex worker" myself.

I think my view point is very different from the majority on MN. I don't wish to see "prostitution" abolished. I wish for things to be safer.

A good example is the current law on brothels. 2 "prostitutes" working together our of a residential premise to keep themselves safe could be prosecuted for running a brothel. This forces people on to the street, which is fraught with dangers.

Criminalising punters also forces "prostitutes" under ground. This is why I do not support the Nordic model.

Again language being used to blur and mitigate womens issues. We can't say female, we (as women) can't define "woman", now we can't say prostitute.

Why can't we say female? Because of a few trans activists? I am female. I have female genitals. I am also a woman. However I cannot say TERF, as that apparently is a slur. I also view "prostitute" as a slur. As do many "prostitutes".