Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

'Getting Engaged'

144 replies

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 08:07

Someone I know just got engaged. Same sex relationship. Other person older and quite controlling, probably the 'asker' as opposed to the 'askee'.

This situation got me thinking about engagement. (Usually) man goes to woman's father to ask for her hand in marriage - so woman being passed from man to man. Woman having to wait around to be asked, and appear delighted when asked. I hate it, every aspect of it is designed to control and subjugate women.

Don't know what I'm asking really, it just all seems so wrong.

(Disclaimer: am married but we decided to do it together and didn't have an engagement, ring etc).

OP posts:

VestalVirgin · 06/12/2016 11:22

@Fink: Yeah, the sort of man I would want to marry would not even dream of asking my father for permission to marry me. (But I would not tell them in advance, I'd make this a secret test of character.)

RNBrie · 06/12/2016 11:23

Oooh I have just remembered that I did actually propose back a couple of weeks afterwards. I bought him a fancy watch and set up a dinner at a restaurant and got down on one knee. I had completely forgotten... Weird. I had enjoyed being proposed to so much that I wanted him to experience the same thing. It was really nice if a little embarrassing and I am sure there were people in the restaurant thinking "poor cow, had to propose to him"

If I had my time again we would have discussed it "shall we get married?" "yes what a fabulous idea!" "let's buy each other expensive presents to show our love". And then a quick do in a registry office a couple of months later and lunch in a pub with our nearest and dearest. That would have made me very happy indeed!!

user1475253854 · 06/12/2016 11:23

Yep yoko in 150+ weddings I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I heard the bride/bridesmaids speak. There was a best woman's speech, which was very good, but that's not quite the same.

Grindelwaldswand · 06/12/2016 11:23

Me and DP have planned together that we'll get engaged sometime after the new year when he has the spare money for the ring ive chosed myself because its my choice what a random odd thing to try and trivialise and taint something so romantic. If this was AIBU id say YABU.

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:25

The 'asking father's permission' really is hair raising when you think about it.

Do you agree to hand over your daughter to me, her prospective husband?

Do you think this is a good idea?

I won't ask your wife (Her mother) because this is between men and women don't have opinions

OP posts:

user1475253854 · 06/12/2016 11:26

To clarify, when I say best woman, she was a woman being the groom's best man, not the bride's best woman, hence she was allowed to speak

SouthofMaui · 06/12/2016 11:27

Thinking about it, I know a couple of women who claimed to be against traditional engagements etc, but would have been deeply offended not to get a ring. Poor blokes..

I have seen brides making a speech in quite a few weddings! A couple did it because their husband hated public speaking, the others because they wanted to say something. These were fairly traditional church in white gown + wedding breakfast kind of things.

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:28

*Grindel' but what is romance? A man making a woman wait years in some cases to be asked for her hand in marriage? Or two people agreeing to spend their lives together?

OP posts:

amispartacus · 06/12/2016 11:30

Thinking about it, I know a couple of women who claimed to be against traditional engagements etc, but would have been deeply offended not to get a ring

All those feminist principles can go out of the window at times

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:31

Haha the more I think about this the madder I get!

Man waits years to propose to woman, who has been on tenterhooks for years because she's not allowed to make a decision about her life/relationship, and she's expected to be grateful and gushing. Then, at the wedding, she stays quiet and laughs at all the men's jokes.

OP posts:

museumum · 06/12/2016 11:33

We decided together to get married. In a restaurant, a bit drunk.
We told parents etc the next day. A few days later I told dh I wanted a ring - he hadn't been sure if I would but with everyone asking to see it and I'm not much into jewellery so just fancied something special to wear all the time (before I got my wedding ring).
So I guess we were non-traditional. But at the same time I think there usually needs to be a point where a couple state that they're going to start organising a wedding (don't get me started on long indefinite engagements!)

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:33

Sorry spartacus I've been calling you the wrong name

OP posts:

Datun · 06/12/2016 11:36

I bought my husband a briefcase as an engagement gift. If he had wanted a ring I would have bought him one.

Traditionally it might have been about dowries and ownership passing from one man to the next, but I'm certain no one thinks about it in that way any more (unless perhaps you're religious).

I've also seen brides dispense with the speech tradition all together, and make their own. No-one thinks it's odd.

amispartacus · 06/12/2016 11:37

I would but with everyone asking to see it and I'm not much into jewellery

"Oooh, you got engaged. Can I see the ring?"
"No ring to see here, you should know my views on that"

You can imagine how people would react to that

Datun · 06/12/2016 11:40

yoko

I really don't think that's how it works for the most part in this day and age!

In terms of the actual day and the roles in that. The bride would almost certainly have had a very high percentage of input into all of it if not most of it. Without you view that as an equal or not, she certainly isn't normally just a timid bystander.

Datun · 06/12/2016 11:41

*whether

SouthofMaui · 06/12/2016 11:42

Man waits years to propose to woman

see, that's the thing. If a woman wants to get married, then she shouldn't have to wait for years . I am all for the traditional engagement, but both partners have an equal role. I think you both discuss your future, and what you want from life and you go from there. I am against ultimatum, and would never say "Propose now or I am leaving", but I would have just left if I had been ready to start a family , and the other one wasn't. I mean, you are talking about a couple, most of the time already living together. It's not that difficult to agree on something that important. You can still have a surprise engagement!

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:43

datun but she gets to do the 'womanly' things like, ooh, flowers and seating plans. And god forbid she does that with anything specific in mind = bridezilla! Men get to make the jokes and compliment the bridesmaids on how 'stunning' they look.

OP posts:

welshgirlwannabe · 06/12/2016 11:44

Re the gratitude thing - dp does not work full time as a favour to me. I do not breastfeed our baby at night while he sleeps as a favour to him. We decided to raise our family this way, and made choices to facilitate that together.

I have been a single parent and know full well how much easier it is with a partner to help. I am grateful to have a loving committed partner in my life, in the same way that I am grateful to have healthy children and a roof over my head.

I do realise his contribution to my life, and vice versa. What I don't do however is thank him for agreeing to take care of me, or feel in any way beholden.

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:44

Sorry datun I'm getting a bit exercised here but it's been bubbling away for so long I just have to get it out!

OP posts:

Datun · 06/12/2016 11:49

No worries yoko

But if we're going down that road...

datun but she gets to do the 'womanly' things like, ooh, flowers and seating plans.

Why are those considered womanly things?

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:52

datun my point exactly! The woman 'organises' almost the entire wedding and gives the man the odd job (sort out those suits!) and then sits quietly looking pretty on the day.

OP posts:

SouthofMaui · 06/12/2016 11:53

Women gush over the ring (come on, they are so sparkly!)
and men pat each other on the back and take the newly engaged man (what's the word for that? Fiance?) anyway, take the man to the pub to congratulate him.

I think the men are winning on that one, or did I just always miss out on invits for a drink?

Original poster

YokoUhOh · 06/12/2016 11:53

Although I need to stop banging on about weddings because this was originally about the tradition of proposing and whether or not it's a teensy bit controlling...

OP posts:

Datun · 06/12/2016 11:56

datun my point exactly! The woman 'organises' almost the entire wedding and gives the man the odd job (sort out those suits!) and then sits quietly looking pretty on the day

In terms of big weddings, I'm not sure coming at this from a feminist view point is working. The woman will no doubt be controlling everything. And I'd lay money on it, that this is her choice. It's not being imposed by a patriarchal society.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Swipe left for the next trending thread