Does having sex with a prostitute constitute rape?

[quencher]

A thread triggered this for me so I have decided to ask the question. If you consent to be paid for sex but don't feel like sleeping with the customer, are you being raped?

i am astonished how many people feel that men absolutely have to have sex and its understandable that they use prostitutes

And this is most definitely a societal attitude that needs to change. A family member found out her DP was cheating on her and lots of comments made, both behind her back and to her face, were that if he wasn't getting "it" at home then of course he was going to go and seek "it" elsewhere. My first ever boyfriend broke up with me because I wasn't ready to have sex. We were together at few months (which is basically forever when you're 14) he wanted it, I didn't, so he dumped me. I was gutted. A family member asked me if I'd slept with him, I said no and that's why he'd dumped me "well that's where you went wrong! Men expect something in return for all the presents and kindness you know!"

The attitude of many, many people in this world is that men need sex and that women must provide it to them. It was only in 1991 that marital rape was made illegal in the UK, someone locally was arrested for raping his wife. He'd been having sex with her while she was drugged, one night she woke up during the act and discovered it had been going on for months. The overwhelming attitude in terms post office queue was that you can't rape your wife, she's your wife and she must know that a man has needs.

As far as I'm concerned, a man doesn't have any sort of 'need' that - in the absence of a willing partner - can't be met by his right hand and a bottle of lube. Passing off prostitution as meeting the needs of men perpetuates the attitude that women are nothing more than glorified wank socks there purely to meet that need. Sure, nowadays we might be able to become doctors or politicians or astronauts but to the sort of men who use prostitutes every single one of us is basically a walking, talking cock socket. These men don't respect women, they don't see them as equal or as people of value.

Considering that many women in the sex industry are there through coercion then the consent they are giving is questionable. These men are complicit in that coercion and, yes, having sex with someone who is unable (for whatever reason) to give informed, enthusiastic, willing consent is rape.

The potential offence is sexual activity with a child under 16; home office guidance is not to prosecute such activity between consenting teenagers close in age.

Even if all prostitutes were forced the men sleeping with them still wouldn't be rapists unless they knew or were negligent to the fact that the woman wasn't fully consenting. The argument is that, if a woman has consenting sex for money and she has no interest in sex with that person, it should be considered rape. Rape because the only thing making that situation possible is the money exchange.

If money is enough for consent for prostitution not to be considered rape , ( if you knew that person was not trafficked or a druggie)
What is the difference between that and a woman who is ok with her OH having sex with her even though she is not into it, just to please them? (Is money more priced and better than being in relationship as form of access to sex? Does money over rides rape in this case?
If the OH was to carry out chores round the house in order to gain sex as reward, how is that different. (This does happen and women sometimes use sex as an incentive or deny sex as punishment. Am not talking about men who demand sex but those who are ok and willing to have sex with their OH who are not in the mode but will carry on to finish. If this is not ok, how is this ok for a prostitute?

Why does a disabled man's need for sex trump a woman's need to not be treated as a sex commodity?
Disabled mans need for sex should never trump a woman's need not to be treated as sex commodity. Having sex is not a human right.

Tara that has to be one of the best posts I have ever read on mn. Thank you for expressing the point so strongly and succinctly.

Yy, I'm tempted to copy and paste tarlas post everywhere!

Many years ago I worked for a charity which provided health advice / free condoms / welfare advice for 'working girls' in Edinburgh (where 'saunas' are legal).

Here is my tuppence worth:

NONE of the women had sex 'because they liked it / wanted to'.
Almost all of them hated sex, including with any partner at home.
ALL of the girls and women I had contact with had had some form of abuse as a youngster, which led to them being 'able' to do that for a living.
Lots were still living in abusive situations.
That was in the Saunas.
In the streets (mostly Leith area) many of them either were led into it through drugs or needed drugs/drink to cope with the stresses of not knowing if any random punter was going to beat them up/ cut them (this also happened in the saunas and could be by the owner, not just a random punter).

TheWeeBaby yes, those figures sound about right for the time I knew the rates (late 1990's). The girls in the sauna were not allowed to use condoms for bj's (as the punters didn't like it). One new girl was in a huge state of distress at one of our clinics as a punter had taken his towel off in the room with her and quite obviously had advanced VD. She then 'declined' him. He was furious. Owner made her 'pay back' the punters fee of £40, and the cut he would have taken (£15) and sent her home for the shift as punishment for 'being picky'. So, she was £55 down that night.

I only spent about 6 months with the charity but I'll never forget some of the stuff I heard :( I was told of a Sauna owner who was proud of getting his wife and daughter into the business.

We were also well aware of the HUGE Police involvement.

The other thing I remember especially was that the busiest week of the year, outwith Christmas, was when the Church of Scotland annual big meeting was in session :(

Silk thank you for redressing the balance.

No offence intended but I'm not buying those posters claiming they do it and don't mind/it's having/had no negative effect on them.

I'm also not at all surprised business increased when church authorities in town.

Also loving Tarlas post especially

"These men don't respect women, they don't see them as equal or as people of value."

Stop it OP.

I'm watching a tv show and at one point a man visits a brothel and jokes about all the women having "daddy issues". So I simply don't buy that men are not aware of the women not really consenting.

Certainly the men involved in this business, at every level, don't see women as people at all. They are money making machines.

There was a saying I remember: 'you'll have had your hole, then?
sauna owners would invite their mates / favoured customers for freebies.

(a crude variant on the Edinburgh expression: 'you'll have had your tea?')

Women were viewed as holes, pure and simple.

silk how devastating

Punternet is just vile. It sends chills through me. Yesterday I read a review on there by a man saying how very much the woman had clearly enjoyed the sex with him, which made a change from most of the prostitutes he'd seen.

What more proof so you need that it's rape and that these men know it's rape and don't care?

I'd be willing to bet money that for the majority of these men, a large part of the appeal lies in the very fact that they can buy themselves a collection of holes and do whatever they like to those holes. I'd also bet that an equally large part of the appeal is that prostitute is not entirely willing but must go along with it anyway.

Nailed it again Tarla.

That's exactly what I was meaning when I was saying if it was just about sex there's PLENTY of ways these days to get nsa sex.

Tarla oh, yes, I think it is not chiefly about sex, it is about power.

men who feel powerless in their lives decide to feel more powerful by subjugating someone else.

the fact they get their end away is just a small part of it, imo.

'the woman had clearly enjoyed the sex with him' - what a deluded fool!

I think most people who have any empathy for others and think that women are actually human beings with their own feelings, preferences and desires can probably infer that prostitution is a pretty unpleasant way to make money, to say the least.

It's obvious really and if you don't find it obvious, you need to ask yourself what it is about you that stops you from being able to see that, because imo you have something psychologically wrong with you.

I completely disagree that it is rape.

I was raped - by three strangers who broke into my university halls whilst I was sleeping, beat me up and had sex with me whilst I was semi conscious.

THAT is rape.

To say that a prositute who, by definition of their work, is prepared to have sex, has taken money for it and knows what is going on is raped is complete bollocks.

I've been raped too heron, and I disagree. I doubt I'm alone in this either

heron - that must have been awful.

I was abused as a teenager and gave no consent at all.

It doesn't mean that prostitution isn't another form of rape and part of the same wider rape culture we live in.

As many have said above, prostitutes don't always consent themselves, and even when they do, it's a choice made possible and viable by the society we live in.

Some clearly don't even speak English.

heron

I strongly believe that a culture in which men think it is OK to buy consent from a woman who does not want to have sex with them is a culture in which rapes such as you suffered will be more likely. Consent is not a commodity; consent, freely given, should be a pre requisite.

I am sorry for what happened to you.

Heron very sorry that happened to you. That was horrific.

But I have to as an abuse survivor respectfully disagree.

There are different kinds of rape but it's still rape and it's still wrong.

heron I am sorry that happened to you

I am also a survivor (it is horribly common) and was also attacked at Uni.

I do think that these are all events on the spectrum of sexual violence by men, perpetrated on women

I have huge issues with people sitting down to analyse if it's rape or not! IMO you know if you have been raped.. and all that has come after diminishes what is a serious crime.. let the flaming commence