Does having sex with a prostitute constitute rape?

[quencher]

A thread triggered this for me so I have decided to ask the question. If you consent to be paid for sex but don't feel like sleeping with the customer, are you being raped?

Jesus Christ! That website

Male prostitutes mostly sell themselves to men.
Seeing as female pros also sell themselves to men, this tells us rather a lot about men.

"I think there is something very wrong with people who pay for sex. There is no way it's purely about meeting a physical need"

Agree.

Consent is not a commodity.

Hermione
I'd rather you didn't get to decide what I do with my body. Just the same way I wouldn't want a man to decide I have to have sex with people for money (I. E. Force me into it)

Certain groups - young, vulnerable, people with certain special needs etc should our protection but I'd rather decide for myself thanks.

I agree that Thai prostitutes would almost certainly be forced, but we're talking about theory and if in theory they consented (as the op asked originally) it's not rape.

I think I'd make a judgement based on all the information available. Mainly considering what they said to me about their consent but I'd also look at other factors like age, id, whether they looked like a vulnerable person (you can usually tell if someone is a on heroine for instance)

My experience and belief is that some people are consenting, you obviously don't believe that so I imagine wed come to different conclusions.

I also think there's a huge number of men being escorts to women (maybe more of an escorting culture than the typical curb pick up of a sex worker) but we don't hear about them as much.

RollerGirl

The state has other laws about what people can buy for money (and the laws should be on the buyers ie the punters).

You are not allowed to pay a surrogate beyond reasonable expenses, you are not allowed to buy blood or bone marrow transfusions, for example. You cannot pay someone to let you hit them without committing assault.

This is probably ridiculously obvious already to everyone else, but after reading a bunch of "positive" and "negative" real life reviews on that site, I just feel completely disgusted at what prostitutes face, whether they technically consent or not.

It's not just "sex" - it's dozens of bodily acts which our society has normalised and made these men feel they have a right to demand. It's some creep who gets pissed off if they can't stick their tongue down your throat, or is angry if you won't suck them without a condom or do anal or something, or won't let them do oral on you, or feels that you're in any way just doing this for the money.

And fuck forbid you don't come thanks to their glorious "efforts" apparently.

Rollergirl7
Sorry if I missed this, but have you actually chosen prostitution for yourself and if so, in which capacity?

klassykringle
Yeah not to mention the guys who demand you orgasm.
They're literally angered if you didn't orgasm during the job.

I spoke to one woman, who has since died from an overdose, on the night she started working, I may be biased. Addicted, broke and it was the only way she knew to get money. She was crying. I'm sure she looked addicted and in tears but someone fucked her anyway.

That's because of the mens rea for assault, rape is different.

Laws usually and ideally are in place that should provide everyone with the upmost freedom whilst ensuring that people's lives, rights and property is protected. I.e. some pretty wrong things are not illegal as people need personal freedom.

Not all prostitutes are forced. Therefore you can't blanket all men who sleep with prostitutes as rapist.

Even if all prostitutes were forced the men sleeping with them still wouldn't be rapists unless they knew or were negligent to the fact that the woman wasn't fully consenting.

Honestly what might be more useful is not labeling every man who pays for sex as a rapist just in case that woman has a drug habit or pimp or someone else forcing her into it, but tackling the issues that cause people to go into prostitution when they don't want to.

I suspect though that if we got rid of trafficking, drug habits, poverty, pimps, etc there would still be some women (and men) happy to engage in this as they like sex and see it as a fine way to make a living

(Oops you did mention that last para)!

Consent is not a purchasable commodity. Anyone with a conscience knows this. A man cannot therefore believe that money magically gives rise to genuine consent. He knows the woman doesn't actually want to do it, so it's rape.

Rollergirl7
Again
Have you been/are you a prostitute?

Read the book by Sophie Hayes Trafficked, it's a book written by my friend who was forced to be a prostitute and was regularly paid by judges, police, doctors to have sex with them. She never wanted to have sex with any of them but took their money because she would have been killed had she not.

I think there is a very small percentage of people who are prostitutes who actually want to be one.

I know the thread you were talking about though and don't think the husband is a rapist.

MrsTerryPratchett

That man is a rapist, as to me that's not consent (talking about consent not just as being willing to do the act but by the more recent definition of enthusiastic consent that has been used in a lot of colleges /universities) any hesitation from the women or kind of vulnerability, I.. drunk, drugs, crying should put the idea in the man's mind that she doesn't consent and that's when it becomes rape. if the woman was for instance one of the women in a booth in Amsterdam and seemed perfectly fine and happy at the time to proceed I wouldnt call him a rapist.

I was a sex worker. I was never raped. If I wanted to refuse a client I would.
I am aware that I am fortunate to never have been harmed while I was working.

In order to be a punter you need to not give a shit about whether you're raping someone. You need to believe that it's more important to orgasm than to be 100% sure you have genuine consent.You need to be someone who wants to control what happens during sex and have power over your partner (otherwise you'd just use Tindr). You need to conisder the wishes and enjoyment of your partner unimportant and irrelevant.

And that doesn't sound like a rapist to you?

Woman - how does that work with sperm donation, medical trails, etc? Some people might just desperately want to help other have a family or find a cure for X but some surely do it for the money. Their consent is purchased then.

0pheliq- no never been a prostitute, although a man did once leave me money after sex (which I didn't take) I wonder how that would work, would you call him a rapist as he though he had to give me money afterwards, I certainly didn't feel at the time that because he had left me money I hadn't consented.

I actually think prostitution is a huge problem generally, I think there's too many awful situations where people are forced into it, or its their only option through poverty, trafficking is abhorrent, coercion is disgusting and I think these issues should be tackled. But I do believe that some elements of prostitution are fine, E. G. Amsterdam red light district, some informed willing adults who are escorts, etc.

Something definitley needs to be done but it's offensive to label every man who has ever paid for sex as a rapist and it's outrageous to try and stop women doing what they want with their bodies if they do consent.

Possibly very similar to wearing the niqab or other face coverings, in general I believe they are degrading to women and i believe very often women are coerced to wear them by pressure and abuse from family members, society, their culture etc but I would say that it's not right to ban these completely as taking freedoms away to do what you wish with your own body doesn't sit very well with me at all.

"Honestly what might be more useful is not labeling every man who pays for sex as a rapist just in case that woman has a drug habit or pimp or someone else forcing her into it, but tackling the issues that cause people to go into prostitution when they don't want to." Honestly I'm really not buying that men are not getting the same information we are. Seeing the same news reports and stuff on social media, on online forums etc. If procuring/paying a prostitute were criminalised I strongly suspect there'd be a sharp decrease in customers - especially of the kind that want to be seen as 'pillars of the community' but then a lot of these 'pillars' are also punters.

"I suspect though that if we got rid of trafficking, drug habits, poverty, pimps, etc there would still be some women (and men) happy to engage in this as they like sex and see it as a fine way to make a living" as I said before there are plenty of avenues to get consensual casual even extramarital and even fetishised sex.

Punters convince themselves that you want it. That you actually fancy them and that you're orgasmic for them. It's part of the mindset.
If you don't fulfill this mindset they complain, ask for someone else, leave a scathing review.

You're consenting to fucking for money. You don't get to choose who to fuck.

The downsides of the job are rather too numerous to mention, but the punter rarely suffers from the downsides (like when his wife finds out which is rare).

Women - you're just making things up.

You don't need to be all those things. You might be a Virgin at 40 and desperate to lose your virginity, you might be severely disabled, you might not want the hassle of a relationship but want to have sex.

You're labelling people as a rapist and talking in huge generalisations. That is what is outrageous and it sounds more like you've got the issues than every single man ever that's ever paid for sex.

Some men who pay for sex (maybe the majority) are control freaks, power playing, maybe even rapists as I said before but not all.

Some terrorists are Muslim...... not all!

A quick Google reveals many of the 'consenting' 'happy' Amsterdam prostitutes are also trafficked (mainly eastern European), poor, addicted etc don't romanticise please

1. Maybe they can't be bothered with other ways to find sex and do find (or believe they find) a consenting prostitute

1. You can't believe men aren't getting the info you are - I'm a woman (Although that's irrelevent) I have access to the same info as you and I don't believe that all prostitutes are forced. Maybe some men feel the same as me? Honestly you're allowed to have your opinion and other people are allowed to have there's. Whether it's rape (legally) depends on the intent and mindset of the person paying for sex. Your opinion can't be inflicted on everyone else in the heart world. Even on mumsnet where women and feminists are quite common not everyone agrees with you, there's been multiple.people on this thread saying not all prostitutes are forced.

Your quick Google also doesn't convince me of your 'absolute' claim that all paid for sex is rape.

Some is I have only doubt but not all. I doubt you'll Google anything that doesn't entirely back up your (wrong) opinions though.

Does anyone fancy more than one abortion, repeated treatment for various STI's and having to shove a sponge up inside you every month so you can carry on working during your period as an aside to fucking strangers for money?

The realities for women in sex trade are grim and men need to be held accountable.

No woman chooses herself into sex trade. The decision is made by external factors (clue: patriarchy).