I'd like help please. I'm uncomfortable with the many statements that the women who voted for Trump are poor and stupid

[HoneyDragon]

I can't articulate why. And need help to do so. I'm not going to beat around the bush when people say uneducated with faux sympathy, they do obviously mean stupid. Which isn't helping me either.

Even watching the dreaded Wright Stuff, I'm at edge with two priviliged White males effectively saying women voted that way because they are too weakened to do anything else. (Texan housewives being put forth as an example). I'm not liking the way the media is discussing the amount of women that voted for an odious openly sexist turd ....but for the life of me cannot verbalise it.

I agree with you OP, it makes me uneasy as well. The same thing happened after Brexit I suppose. Ultimately america (like the rest of the world) is full of nutcases. Nutcases come both with and without penises.

The issue to me is that women are held to a higher standard than men. Men, we accept will be openly racist, misogynist and violent. It amazes me that people are shocked when women act like idiots.

There is an underlying theme of liberal thinking which says that if only everyone is "as educated" as I am, they will reach the same conclusions about stuff. They wont, and they don't. Some people are unable to accept this.

Can someone tell me what is wrong with the following policies:

• Rewriting the tax code to allow working parents to deduct from their income taxes child care expenses for up to four children and elderly dependents.

• Incentivising employers to provide childcare at the workplace.

• Provide 6 weeks of paid leave to new mothers before returning to work.

These are Trump policies by the way. For women.

Agree completely Xeno (there's a surprise ).

"Wasabi, Xxxxx, do you honestly believe every single individual in that 47.5% is a white supremacist?" I don't think I ever met a white person who is completely aware of their white privilege at all times. I think all white people can and are racist and can very easily marginalise PoC. And it seems that for 47.5% of the US population you don't have to scratch too far beneath the surface to see those attitudes.

Similarly with sexism. I've never met a man who isn't sexist. You only have to look at the thread about the boy who's quite happily exploited girls to do his work for him in group coursework to see how supposedly supportive boys and men are quite comfortable using their privilege.

And in answer to the OP it is sexist to call women stupid. It has been one of the arguments to keep women down for centuries. That Matthew Wright uses is no real surprise. He really doesn't like women very much.

Lass if you bothered to look at the voter breakdowns it was the middle/upper class voters to delivered trump the presidency. Clinton took the lion share of low income voters. Using coded language like 'sneering metropolitan elite' when you just mean anti fascist anti racist multi cultural folk (me) is very transparent.

As a lifelong Labour voter and Europhile I frequently find the sort of comments frequently found on MN and this thread about how morally superior and intelligent anti-facist and multicultural folk extremely irritating.

And patronising

There is an underlying theme of liberal thinking which says that if only everyone is "as educated" as I am, they will reach the same conclusions about stuff. They wont, and they don't. Some people are unable to accept this. This is what politicians are failing to grasp. If anyone listened to Question Time and Yvette Cooper last night then that glaring reality was made clear.
As a lifelong Labour voter and Europhile I frequently find the sort of comments frequently found on MN and this thread about how morally superior and intelligent anti-facist and multicultural folk extremely irritating. Exactly Lass. I'm a devoted Europhile but not a Labour voter-yet. We are allowed differing viewpoints. It's called freedom of speech. And as far as I'm aware we live in a democratic country where we are allowed to vote as we please.

lass you didn't actually respond to my comment it wasn't poor working class women who voted for a racist, fascist misogynistic morally bankrupt idiot. It was wealthy white women. So you argument doesn't hold much water.

Also at no point did I say I was morally superior being anti racist and anti fascist imo is the absolute minimum.

The sneering elite trope is a myth, people just don't like have their racism pointed out so deflect. Apparently pointng out someones racism is a worse than actual racism.

Trump's campaign manager is a woman.

I would guess that most of the women who voted for him did so for the same reasons
as men - because they support his pro-growth economic policies.

If there was a "nicer" republican on offer they would have preferred it but there wasn't.

And in answer to the OP it is sexist to call women stupid. It has been one of the arguments to keep women down for centuries. That Matthew Wright uses is no real surprise. He really doesn't like women very much. I tried not to address the Mathew wright thing, but this one takes the biscuit. From what I took from it, Matthew and the dr. Both were very surprised that such a high number of women would choose trump. They were surprised that they would rather have a sexist pig over a woman. You cannot fight for equality but be ok with a man who treats women like shit including his own daughters. Am man who makes crude comments about his own daughter's. secondly, they were not the only men on the panel. Both Elise (mother and daughter were on the panel). The American lady sounded stupid too. She didn't want to listen and consider the sexist remarks. Her main point is Hillary is a liar and she would rather trust trump. really?

The dr. Said he lived in America for over six years and goes back often. His experience is that the cosmopolitan America is different to the huge part of America. the America we see is no where near the majority. He did say the tone is very different and varies. He also stated that most of his high earning male friends from California voted for trump. He also mentioned this before the election too.

And if people on here are supporting the American woman with three degrees supporting trump, to me she put women below her priority list. If she wanted a protest vote, she didn't have to vote Hilary or trump. Simple! By the way she didn't mention protest vote. She just had hate for Hilary and thought trump was better.

Ohh! The woman didn't want a constructive debate. To say that Matthew hates woman is pushing it, if you said he hates kids I would agree with you there.

quencher I think we were watching two very different programmes.

Scallops: "Wasabi, Xxxxx, do you honestly believe every single individual in that 47.5% is a white supremacist?" I don't think I ever met a white person who is completely aware of their white privilege at all times. I think all white people can and are racist and can very easily marginalise PoC. And it seems that for 47.5% of the US population you don't have to scratch too far beneath the surface to see those attitudes.

The bit in quotation marks was my question, and I've been mulling over this, both in connection with my own white privilege, and the issue of male privilege. Apologies if I come at it from the angle of male privilege.

Take for instance, the issue of wifework. A woman takes her husband to task for the fact that all the administrative burden of running the house falls to her, despite them both working full time. Possible responses: (a) but that's woman's work, I do my bit taking the bins out once a week, what are you complaining about?; (b) oh, sorry you feel like that (deflect, deflect), I'll try to make more of an effort (but nothing changes); (c) bugger, hadn't thought of that - (thinks for a while) - here's a suggestion - I do the weekly meal-planner and do the online shopping, you do the keeping on top of school e-mails and making sure all the relevant forms are filled in...

(a) is in your face sexism, (b) is your more common-or-garden sexism-by-inertia, (c) while the result of male privilege, does at least recognise that this is what he's been taking advantage of, and then comes up with some sort of idea to start to address the problem. I'd argue that while all three men are (prior to the woman bringing the issue to their attention) reaping the rewards of their male prejudice, only (a) and (b) are then sexist once the problem has been drawn to their attention.

How that translates into the issue of being on the receiving end of white privilege, I don't know. I do realise I benefit from white privilege (and, in my particular circumstances, probably even more so from class and educational privilege). But I hope if someone drew my attention to a situation where I was unthinkingly going along with a set-up, not realising it disadvantaged people from ethnic minorities, and someone pointed out that I was being a twat, I'd try to take steps to address that.

Okay, an American friend sent me this, and I have had a rethink. Yup, I can see why you would think Trump voters are KKK. This is awful beyond belief - I'm just stunned. I apologise for minimising what American ethnic minorities are going through - please believe it came from a place of wanting to hope that there was some good out there and it could be salvaged somehow.

Ok, one the question at the beginning of the topic pointed out that "the women for trump website isn't concerned about his misogyny comments because, groping is a healthy thing to do".

Mathew pointed out, that out of all the data that has come out, this is what he finds most shocking. The amount of white women who voted for trump.
He also, points out that some of the reason given for why women voted for trump were, he cares for his daughters, his wife and he hires female employees therefore he does respect women.

There is a sisterhood of hatred for Hilary Clinton. Hillary has been in so many years, what has she done, one white female voter asked reporters. She lies, I figured, take a liar or take a chance.
Mathew then names a few things Hillary has done.
-Children's health insurance programs
-taught for 9/11 emergency workers to get post-trauma care

• she post LGB rights to the fore. if you consider that nothing, I suppose that's it.

This is a cultured educated woman. Her mother also made a good point but it's too long to type it down.

SophieEllie's They didn't just vote for trump they decided not to vote for Hilary. There are quite a number of woman out there who don't feel ok having a woman in that role. She then gives an example of a woman she mate not so long ago who said "who would want a woman in power when we are so like this" , as in up and down. This is a cultured educated woman. Her mother Janet also, made lots of good points. Too long to wright down.

The dr. David did say that the American women are not necessarily ready for a female.
He quoted a prominate woman (Marilyn Albright) who said "just because am woman doesn't mean I will vote for her. I have to vote for the right woman.
Matthew interjected( they would vote for a man who has terribly abused them? )

The first woman to call the show (a woman called Angie)
Said, "we have always downplayed misogyny. We never see it like it's a real problem or something to be corncerned about. (Matthew interjected "it's never been as overt as it has been voiced or articulated by Donald trump, I mean pigs and slobs?"
She continues, "Trump acted like a caricature and he is harmless. They see him as not a real threat to women. However, they do feel like race issue is a threat." "Not my view but how they look at him of course"
Matthew then said, a tiny amount of black females voted for trump, so maybe it's a race issue.
Back to angie the caller, "I think it's both because if you are a woman voting and you are a female and your white, you may look at trump and think that he has got our interest at heart. While if you look at Hillary, she is cold, doggy, we don't trust her. When you are an ethnic female, you are thinking he is clearly all about the white man and am not going to vote for him".

Jannette another caller. "the more you read, the more it's it's impossible it is to analyse".

The woman with three degrees, I actually looked for her call and could not find it. I remember hearing it.
The above is part of what was said.

If this is a man who hates women then am not surprised Donald trump is president.

The end. Phew!

Matthew Wright calls mothers breeders. I haven't watched him for years I must admit, because of his misogyny. Maybe he's had an epiphany.

Bully for him that he can see overt sexism and condemn it (along with most of the rest of the world). From the sounds of it though he still managed to do that whilst framing the discussion around sticking the boot in to another group of women.

Where does all this 'data' showing how different groups of people voted come from? Is there a section on American ballot papers where voters declare their ethnicity, sex and income?
Or is it merely media guesswork, just like the election punditry was?

And as far as I'm aware we live in a democratic country where we are allowed to vote as we please

I never said anything about not making these type of comments. Of course you are free to make them- and I'm equally free to comment on how irritating and virtue signalling I find them.

Oh that makes no sense now. I was referring to your point we are allowed differing viewpoints. It's called freedom of speech

Lass In my ham fisted way I was trying to agree with you.

Barth, there was a poll of about 24k people post vote. Similar to Brexit polls. It's on the CNN website I think.

I think it's once again a way of holding women to a higher standard than men, who after all voted far more in favour of Trump than women did, yet whose actions seemed to have escaped the spotlight.

Can you imagine the hatred for women if Clinton had won and the exit polls showed a strong bias amongst women for her. Women would have been derided for "voting with their vaginas".

The women who voted for Trump did so because they identify with other categories more: race, religion, rural over city etc. Possibly because they've been told for decades that sexism doesn't exist.

If anyone won the election for Trump it is those in rural areas. The support there is at its strongest, traditional values at their strongest and resentment against the "prissy urban elites" at their strongest. But it's easier to blame white women.

I also think that right wing women in politics find more public support than left wing women do. Probably because woman + progressive = a step too far. Whereas a woman who promotes right wing policies is just about keeping on the right side of the status quo.

I think in the UK it is also easy to underestimate the hold that churches can have over people. To draw a parallel, I live in N Ireland in bible belt land. In the run up to Brexit, people were debating as to how they should vote. Some evangelical churches were preaching that voting 'leave' was an obligation, no room for debate, no following your own conscience, because your own conscience is by definition sinful because it is man trying to think he knows better than God. Then on top of that there is the belief that a woman must obey her husband and therefore if he said vote leave, you have to vote leave. On facebook (ok, not a proper academic study, and I fully understand that!) I saw lots and lots of well educated women declaring that they had been going to vote remain until they listened to X, Y and Z preach on the matter and how grateful they were to have heard it because they came so close to making God angry with their vote.

I have never lived in the USA but from chatting to people who have, I understand that evangelical churches there hold a similar influence over people, and that membership numbers are huge. That in itself must presumably explain some of the female votes.

I agree religion has a stronger hold. Political speeches will often mention God and are always ended with God bless America

but Trumps victory speech didn't mention god I am sure he isn't openly atheist if he was he wouldn't have won the election atheism is treat with suspicion by many in America

If he declares that he is an atheist that will be interesting

Yes, I find it baffling tbh that evangelicals can support him purely based on the pro life stance (which it seems he conveniently discovered around the time he decided he fancied being president) and are happy to overlook his greed, lies and sexual indiscretions. But that's where the misogyny comes in I suppose, because it seems to me (as someone who was raised in a similarly evangelical background) that the number one priority for many evangelicals is keeping women in their place, everything else is secondary.

I agree it is

As with some wealthy people to keep hold of their money and pay as little tax as possible is their priority

And for those that are consumed by hatred voting for someone who will validate that view is their priority