A Woman's Hair is her Crown

[Buddfox121]

I am a black father of twins. One Boy and a Girl aged 6. Prior to my children being born, I always thought that women spend an extraordinary amount of money on their hair. Especially, African and Afro-Caribbean women.

My wife when she want's a retouch is paying around £30.00 and if she wants weaves etc around £80-120 a pop! When I want a hair cut I pay £8.00 plus £1-2 tip and I am done for the month.

I don't want my Daughter being paranoid about her hair. Spending unnecessary money and time. As long as it's washed and combed . Most Men don't even pay that much attention to a woman's hair as long as it's washed and combed.

Now, my wife is always fussing that my Son's hair needs cutting and I am happy to take him to the barbers or cut it myself. However, whenever I suggest that I cut my daughters hair to a Number 1 like her brother, she protests and intervenes. I think it would be good for her to have short hair at least till she is in her teens. Saves time too.

It gets on my nerves that my wife won't allow me to cut my daughters hair, even though she herself actually want's to ( likes to copy her Brother). I think it's a great idea for her to grow up not worrying that her hair is not braided or straightened or weaved etc. A nice simple 0.5 or No 1 should and can do.

So I would welcome your feedback on the matter, should girls be made to fuss over their Hair, when there are other more important things to be concerned about in Childhood?

Asking a child to buck the gender trend is asking a lot. It isn't just about hair. It's about a whole bigger picture which men need to challenge (and not just ask women and girls to do this).

Well, yeah, but with children below the age of five, you have to either make them conform to gender, or go against it. And I am in favour of enforcing as little gender on them as you can get away with. I do think that in most communities a girl can get away with a "feminine" short haircut.

At age six, you can explain to a girl that people might bully her for her haircut.
If she wants a buzzcut in spite of that, then let her have it. That is an expression of individuality much more than any long hair conformity could be.

I am pretty sure my parents kept my hair short because it was less of a fuss when I was a toddler, and the only "harm" that has done me is that I now think little children don't need to express anything by their hair, especially since their haircut will be decided by the parents anyway.

You don't want your daughter to have to conform to notions of beauty - but it sounds as if you'd disapprove heartily - and vocally - if she decided she wanted weaves/conditioner/braiding/colour etc.

So it is fine for her not to conform to society's ideas of beauty AS LONG AS SHE CONFORMS TO YOUR IDEAS?? Because that's how it sounds.

I know your children are twins, but that doesn't mean they aren't individuals. Your daughter is allowed to have different ideas about how she wants to look.

You want your dd to choose her hairstyle to please you. That is as bad as her choosing her hairstyle to suit society's ideas of beauty.

She should only choose her hairstyle to please herself.

Empower her to make her own choices - and make absolutely sure you tell her that she doesn't have to please you with those choices - because I have a horrible feeling that, at the moment, she knows what you like and don't like, and wouldn't want to make a choice that you'd disapprove of.

I do think that, when a child is young, the parent who is doing most of the hair care (ie. doing their hair each day, dealing with hair washing etc) does get a big say in what the style should be - in that the child shouldn't be allowed to choose a style that is going to take ages to do every day. And the style should be sensible and practical for what they are going to be doing - ie. long hair should be tied back for PE etc, and a hairstyle shouldn't get in the way of children playing, being active etc (I hope that makes sense). I suspect that your wife does most of this sort of stuff for your children at the moment, and that does give her opinion weight - more weight than yours, I believe. But your dd's opinion should also have weight.

But as a child gets older, and can take on the responsibility for doing their own hair, they should get more say over style. Yes, there are constraints around cost, suitability for school, practicality etc - but within those, it should be the child's decision.

You say your daughter tells you she wants her hair short - can I ask you what she tells her mum about the style she wants, when you aren't around? Is she possibly telling you what you want to hear?

I do think you also need to adjust your idea about a woman's hair being a crown of thorns rather than her crowning glory, as that is a very negative image, and you don't want your daughter to grow up hating any part of her body, do you - and she will pick up that that's how you feel, and it will negatively affect her self image.

It is worth bearing in mind that being really strict about something can have the exact opposite effect to the one you want. So by making your dd have short hair, so she doesn't get the notion that her beauty depends on her hair, you might push her to rebel against that notion - and in years to come, her hair may become the main focus for her.

To give you an example:

My mum hates pink. Loathes it.

As a girl, growing up, my sister and I had no pink clothing whatsoever. My mum made a lot of our clothes herself, so wasn't constrained by what was in the shops.

As we got older, we were allowed more choice about the fabrics she bought to make our clothes - but I knew that I couldn't have chosen a pink fabric - I knew her views all too well, and knew I would get that Look from her. It was subtle, the way we were steered away from anything she disapproved of - but we knew what was and was not allowed.

She was just as opposed to the idea of 'Girls Wear Pink' as you are opposed to 'A Woman's Hair is her Crowning Glory' - and my sister and I were very firmly pushed away from all things pink.

As an adult, I realised that I liked pink, and that I resented her for suppressing my individuality the way that she had. I wear quite a lot of pink now - all different shades - and I revel in all the colour choices available to me. And I still feel that this earns me her disapproval. My sister has completely absorbed mum's anti-pink stance - and I think that's another of the reasons why mum loves her best, and always has.

If you feel your dd is being forced into styles she hates, because her mum likes them, then of course you should do something about that. But don't do it just to enforce on her your own ideas about beauty and societal norms, please.

I am living proof that doing that has a negative effect on parent-child relationships.

What does your DD want? Does she want a short cut like her brother because she sees how easy his is to take care of? Do you have any friends or family locally of similar ethnicity / hair type that you could ask for recommendations. There's no particular reason why it has to be braided is there? I know a teenage girl with typical Afro-Caribbean hair, quite long & not straightened, & she usually has it loose or in a ponytail, frankly it looks fabulous.

My DD is 4.6. Now admittedly we are white British, so her hair is somewhat easier (I imagine) to care for than your DD's. It is curly though, & because she is obsessed with Rapunzel I've allowed her to grow it, it's currently down to her tailbone. Surprisingly, very long hair is easier to care for than shorter hair - it requires less washing as it gets less messy as it's always up, she can easily go 2 weeks & it neither looks nor feels dirty. Once hair reaches a certain length, it's pretty easy to put into a few braids. There are so many Youtube videos so it needn't be costly to keep it neatly up & re-do every couple of days. It gets easier the longer it is & many more styles become available.

As I said earlier (and others have said) the real issue is your daughter's choice. If you take that away you risk damaging her self esteem & your relationship with her for a long time to come. If her mother is forcing her to conform to certain types of hairstyles, the same applies.

It's hypocritical to be concerned about the inequality women (and black people) face, and then be angry and domineering in pushing an unconventional haircut on your DD, against your partner's wishes.

I remember reading somewhere about a tax on being female. Women pay 25% more for things like hairdressing, clothes etc.

That is where you should be putting your energies. Not making your daughter suffer for being female!

I do not have this kind of hair, but I do know that women's "trims" cost a lot more than men's, for the most part (£15 vs £45 for DH and me in our village), and that plenty of barbers won't do cuts on women even if they would do the equivalent cut on a man. So you may find that however your daughter has her hair, it costs more to maintain than your son's; important, as cost is one of your reasons for disparaging your wife as you have in the OP.

"makes the Woman's hair a Crown of Thorns not Gold "

Oh I missed this.

Yikes.

As the stereotypical straight cis white male, I am as far away from this conceptual dillema as it's as possible to be. However I do remember reading somewhere about this thing called intersectionality, where all the racism, sexism, and homophobia intertwines in an incredibly complex way.

As a man I question our capacity to get the woman thing sometimes, so I'd advocate letting your wife take the lead on this one. By all means talk about it with her, I wouldn't sit on it and be frustrated. However have the discussion with her, but make it clear that even if you end up disagreeing you'll back her play in practicality. I suspect it would mean a lot.

I read the original post in horror. You seem to be completely selfish, unable to empathise and obnoxious to your wife OP.

What seems like a big hassle and unnecessary expense to you might be a joy to your wife and potentially your daughter too if you backed off. Getting hair done, choosing styles and pampering can be immensely soothing and therapeutic and a great bonding experience for mum and daughter.

Feminism is not about turning girls into boys, its about liberation and equality. Maybe you expected us all to jump in and agree while we burn our bras and try to look as unnatractive as possible. Its not about that I'm afraid. Or perhaps you just wanted to shock a few of us so you could point out how contradictory we are being.

Black hair shops are actually cheaper than european hairdressers and spending a few hours a month conditioning and plaiting isn't the huge inconvenience you are making it out to be. My mum used to spend at least 20 minutes plaiting my sister and my hair every single morning, and yes we complained but we also enjoyed the results. At 6 she is far too young to understand the potential consequences of this.

And if your wife says no you should listen to her. If I came home to a bald daughter I would have packed my husband's things at once. Also, maybe appreciate the fact your wife makes an effort ti look good for herself. That's a nice thing.

I completely agree Titania.

I was surprised and disappointed at some of the responses on here. It's as if any one saying "oh women should not have to pander to standards of beauty" is accepted as a good thing despite, what seemed to me anyway, saying that for very questionable motives.

Yes, the motives. Op seems to be acting like a bull in a China shop with his wife and daughters sensitive feelings just to make his point.

Your proposed haircut is pretty severe. 0.5 is almost no hair at all. My ds has a grade 2.

Anyway I don't really get why your dd has to be virtually bald to have a low maintenance hairstyle. There is a lot of middle ground between long braids and a grade 0.5 isn't there?

There is a lot of middle ground between long braids and a grade 0.5 isn't there?

Not when you have a point to prove, there isn't!

But it's pretty shitty to use a 6 year old girl to do it.

I think the OP has stopped responding because he didn't get the answers he wanted.

Why is his wife 'wasting' money when she gets her hair done? She pays for a service, which she receives = money not wasted. Presumably she likes the way her hair looks as she does it repeatedly = money not wasted.

I think he means that his wife spends money and he doesn't like that, so he tries to control her and stop her by saying it's a waste of money and that she's conforming to the male gaze.

He needs to read/listen to

If your wife is happy to take care of your dd's longer, braided hair, then let her.

There seems to be a lot of posters ASSuming that my Daughter has no choice in the matter.

She is a bit of a Tomboy and simply want's the same type of haircut as her Brother.

I am in favour of that as I think women seem to spend an extraordinary amount of time and money on their hair. Thinking if she has the same cut as her brother she won't have those issues.

Many posters seem to think or rather "State" the contrary, that having her haircut would give her Self Esteem issues. I doubt it very much. The idea would be for her to try it and see how she feels about it.

Some of the posters on here are very Bizarre, Quite scary reading their comments loaded with ASSumptions.

Bottom-line, some of the more balanced replies have been informative and helpful. I think that maybe her having exactly the same haircut as her twin brother may be a shock for her peers and teachers, and importantly her, so if she still would like it cut I would have it done at a number No2 or No3 even. As a black child a No2 or N3 is going to look a lot different than if it were a white child.

In many African countries girls have to have their haircut short the same as Boys as apart of their Uniform until they reach college. The idea being the focus should be on school work not Hair and make up.

I think it's a good idea. Even if I am English born and bred, as a Black Man I can see the logic behind it without thinking anything sinister.

Signing off

In many African countries girls have to have their haircut short the same as Boys as apart of their Uniform until they reach college. The idea being the focus should be on school work not Hair and make up

I rather think the idea is more about controlling girls' appearance.

Your posts reek of misogyny and a desire to control and belittle your wife.

so - male dominated society teaches women that their self worth is bound up in their appearance. Then when women DO care about their appearance they're told that they're wasting (the man's) time & money AND letting down the sisterhood.

No misogyny there, then. just ASSumptions.

Following logic of OP - we should ALL have shaved hair. I suppose we should all wear utilitarian clothes of the exact same design, and eat one meal with exactly the right nutrients etc. Great. What an exciting life.

Bless! Look at the funny ma calling any woman who doesn't capitulate ASSes.

Wonder if he's this much of a jerk with his female relatives and colleagues?

I feel very sorry for this man's wife and daughter.

Budd - if you are still reading, please bear a few things in mind.

Firstly, your wife and daughter are individuals and you don't get to control their appearance, or their interest in their appearance.

Secondly - there is nothing wrong with having pride in one's appearance, or taking time to look good - this can help build confidence. You should want your wife and daughter to be confident, independent people.

Thirdly - whilst it may well be the norm for schoolgirls in Africa to have very short hair cuts, it is NOT the norm in the UK.

You sound very angry and frankly rather unpleasant.

When you didn't get the answers you wanted, you resorted to not very subtle name-calling - which is pretty childish behaviour.

I had hoped that you would read my account of my childhood, and my mother's controlling behaviour with regard to the colours I got to wear, and would understand the parallel I was trying to draw between that, and your desire to control your dd's hairdo - but clearly you have not.

You are not going to like this - but I have formed a judgement of your character from your posts here, and it is not good. I suspect that your dd is telling you what you WANT to hear, about the hair style she wants - because she is afraid of how you will react if she disagrees with you.

I might be wrong - she might want a short hair cut - but based on your reactions here, I wouldn't be at all surprised if neither your wife nor your daughter feels confident in telling you what they really want, for fear of your reaction.

Also - nowhere in this thread have you told us that your dd tells your wife (in private, when you are not there to influence things) that she wants a short hair cut, and your wife is refusing to listen - and I am damn sure that you would have told us that, if it was the case - which makes me suspect that your dd is telling your wife something very different to what she is telling you.

If you are still reading, you should back off. Tell your daughter and wife that you support them absolutely in their choices about their bodies, hair styles and clothing - and then back that up by your actions. Stop whinging about the cost of hair cuts. Admire how they look, even if they don't have a hair style you want them to choose. Support both your children in making choices.

And there's been no response to suggestions of finding a good compromise either. So obviously OP does not wish to resolve but rather to control

In fairness, the OP said he would compromise with a less severe cut than her twin brother. The girl has asked for the same haircut as her brother an this sounds like a reasonable compromise. If she doesn't like it, or gets teased, it will grow.

Joining the others ...

I am tempted to cut it when she goes out the house, but it would lead to a full blown argument on her return (God forbid possibly a domestic strike!

See, this just isn't funny. Not really. It implies that the domestic work is somehow your wife's responsibility/job. It isn't. And women who point that out, are not humourless with chips on their shoulders. Those comments speak volumes tbh.