woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

[BombadierFritz]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3859618/You-caused-son-great-harm-insisting-raising-girl-Boy-seven-sent-live-father-mother-raised-daughter.html

hmmm. ok so its daily mail reporting but I am conflicted
perhaps good if child was being pushed into something he wasnt
but wtf with the boringly stereotypical insistance on the type of toys played with

Actually identifying as someone with gender identity issues is no longer classed as a mental health issue.

Hanora Actually identifying as someone with gender identity issues is no longer classed as a mental health issue.

No, but being suicidal is.

It's also debatable, although we're not allowed to debate it without being called transphobic, if gender dysphoria is a mental illness. Gender dysphoria may not be a mental health issue, but many mental health disorders are found to be co-morbid with dysphoria.

I've seen a lot on Twitter and elsewhere, even on that blog you posted, that people who haven't got a trans child don't know what it's like so can't comment on the issues. My daughter stated she was trans over 4 years ago, we've done the hiding sharp implements and pills thing, so I'm qualified to comment. I do know for us that we didn't go overboard when she told us, we didn't affirm her self-identification by using her new name (actually names, they changed weekly) or male pronouns. We were okay with her presenting however she wanted, but refused a binder and compromised with a too small sports bra. Those affiliated to Mermaids may consider it abuse, but we considered it abuse to blindly follow her lead.

We were referred to CAHMS where she was diagnosed with a mental health disorder and also referred onto the Tavistock clinic. However, once her mental health issues were treated her feelings of dysphoria diminished indicating the dysphoria was a symptom.

The statistics in that link posted only really shows that, for 70% of transgendered youth, agreeing with them gives them life satisfaction. These are young people, teenagers, children. You'll find the majority of youths are satisfied when you agree with them, as they don't think they're right - they KNOW they are. Teenagers especially think they are the first ones ever to have the thoughts and ideas they're having. Challenging peoples ideas does make them uncomfortable and unhappy - see Mermaids Twitter for how uncomfortable they are by being challenged, and the fact one of their members came on here to out a former member, oh and the excuse that there are thousands with her name up and down the country is no excuse - how many of those with that name have a transgender child??

There have been a lot of allegations of abuse from both sides following this case, what's clear from the judgement is the grave concern about the child's inappropriate touching of women and genital knowledge - both red flags.

Also if the doxed woman was on the committee then it sends the message that, if you step out of line, then you will be punished.

Gender dysphoria is the only dysmorphia/dysphoria to have been removed from the DSM. So, it's still regarded as a MH issue to want to blind yourself, or cut your leg off but not to want to castrate your child.

Name changed for this

Mermaids have been an amazing support and lifeline for me and my son who is on the transgender spectrum. Like previous posters, we didn't make a song and dance - took it at his pace. And he may or may not end up being a different gender; but it is certainly something he needs to explore. I'm not 'trendy' or confident. But I have a son who's years-long depression lifted enormously when he realised there were options.

I choked when he read the transgender / gender dysphoria definitions and sobbed, saying 'that's me, mummy'. emotive maybe - but until you've been in those shoes you have no idea how it feels (like many situations)

It's not 'trendy' or 'attention seeking' - I want my son to be happy. I can assure doubters that I would much rather my son remained a boy from a selfish point of view; it would be far easier! But as a parent, our routes are often not the easiest. So I will accept being judged as part of that. It doesn't matter. What matters is that my child is healthy and cared for; and that includes his mental health. I'm sure I get a lot wrong, but we can only do our best, and sometimes that means being judged by others.

It is unlikely that anyone who doesn't know me well will identify me from that deleted message from an unknown Mermaids member. None of my Mumsnet profile is public and during my time with Mermaids I kept a very low profile, refusing to engage in anything public. My son has not appeared in any trans promotional material or any of the films made by other Mermaids partners. In fact one of the concerns I raised with the Mermaids committee was about an adult who was not a Mermaids member turning up without members' knowledge at a meeting and wanting to take photographs to put on the website of their own organisation. I challenged them at the time as I was uncomfortable with this as a parent and I could see other parents were as well. This is a major concern to me; parents who maybe want the publicity and limelight for themselves are putting their children into the media spotlight. Are those parents saying "look at me, see what a supportive parent I am?" That can become addictive. In good faith they may be led to believe that they are doing a good thing as they are fed the line that it is good to inform the public about trans children and teens so they become more accepted. That material is out there then, no putting the genie back in the bottle.

Speaking of the media; yesterday I received a PM from an investigative journalist via Mumsnet. Watch out for more from the Daily Mail in the coming weeks. I refused to give them anything but they are going to try to find someone currently involved with Mermaids who will talk to them. So Hugh089 if you are reading, maybe check your inbox?

darkages

No one is judging you or your son and I wish you all the help and peace in the world.

darkages nobody is saying that gender non-conforming kids shouldn't be listened to and cared for, and nobody is judging you for loving and supporting your child. I wish every good outcome for you and your child.

What many of us are saying is that pushing a child (and their parents) to think there is only one desirable and possible outcome to feelings of dysphoria (transition, as soon as possible), and pushing a narrative that if you do not do this it will inevitably lead to suicide, is a dangerous and irresponsible thing. This is why I am so alarmed at what Mermaids is doing. If that hasn't been the case for you, then I am very glad.

Thanks datun and Annie - apologies if I overreacted. Hard not to with such an emotive topic. I get what you are saying on an intelllectual level.

Such a sad case. All we can do as parents is our absolute best. When your child is 'different' you just know, the poor woman could obviously see something others couldn't. If the judge is wrong, the child is already suffering, living with a father who won't allow free expression - and hadn't been in the child's life for years. Why wasn't evidence used from Mermaids or other specialists? Too one sided. Then a gagging order on the mother? Something doesn't add up!

unicorns you clearly haven't read the judgement, the father allowed J to express himself any way he wanted. And the judge ordered Mermaids to have no contact with the child, which is pretty damning.

Oh dear. Another one who either hasn't read or hasn't understood the judgement.

The father is clearly acknowledged as allowing the child to be whatever gender he chooses. The child himself corrected. A teacher and said he was a boy. Evidence was used from the Tavistock Clinic. Are they not experts?
In what capacity are Mermaids considered "experts"? What qualifications do their members have? What peer reviewed research have they published?

The gagging order on the mother was purely to protect the child's privacy. Again, an entire judgement was made purely on this issue.

Things won't "add up" if you're closing your eyes to the facts in order to push your agenda.

and hadn't been in the child's life for years

That is so unfair. If you had bothered to read the judgement this father went to enormous lengths to stay in his son's life despite the obstacles put up by his mother

I Can totally understand how Mermaids would be a godsend to a parent whose child is genuinely suffering from diagnosed gender dysphoria. The problem seems to be it's our way or the highway. They should stick with being a parent support group, not being a first point of call, lobbyists or experts in medical matters unless they are qualified.

And being transgender or a parent of one is not a qualification.

Then judgement was biased and one sided

Mermaids statement last week. I thought it might help others understand some of the things that did not make the judgement.

The judge in this case has effectively gagged the Mum which has stopped her from being able to defend herself. I personally and other members of Mermaids have known this family for 3 years. There have been 2 independent assessments done by psychologists who work with gender variant children, both concluded that the child was very clear about who she was and was not being coerced in any way. Mum was supportive but not directing or causing the behaviour. The independent psychiatrist that the judge quotes also stated there is no evidence that the mum caused the gender identity issues. But that didn't get into the judgement. Why weren't the only NHS centre supporting children with gender identity issues not consulted on this case? The Tavistock are clear that allowing a child to express their gender identity is not a child protection issue. Why did an anonymous allegation of smoking pot that has never been proven or substantiated and is clearly malicious make it into a court judgement? The Mum was subjected to multiple malicious anonymous referrals to social services. Schools are often unable or unwilling to accept gender issues in children and yet the Mum was criticised for removing the child due to bullying. She has been painted as a controlling and abusive character by events being depicted in such a way that makes her entirely understandable protectiveness seem extreme.
It wasn't. I was party to meetings that were called without the Mums knowledge or participation, the clear disbelief from the school and GP that a child can express themselves and their assertion that it was the Mum. It wasn't. The child knows who they are. I can only imagine the bewilderment and distress she must be feeling now having being removed in the middle of the night and placed with a father she had not seen in 3 years, who the last time she saw him he was involved in an altercation with her Mum through the car window, the car that she was in.
Let's be clear here. Cross gender play and expression does not constitute gender dysphoria. Kids should be allowed to play with whatever they want without any conclusions being drawn. I love sponge bob, but that doesn't make me a boy. Most children are perfectly happy with their birth gender. But some are not. This child consistently and repeatedly asserted that she was a girl. This Mum was undermined by professionals that had no experience or understanding of gender identity issues in children, so Mum protected her child and fought for recognition of her gender expression.
The judge said the mum did not follow the Tavistock recommendations. This was because she decided that her 5 year old, who was happy, outgoing and confident, should not be subjected to appointments with a mental health professional who undoubtedly would know nothing about gender issues for no reason. The judgement states in one sentence that the child was isolated and not even registered with a GP, then in another line says she was registered as a girl. Which is it? This child was home schooled, but was part of a local network of parents and children who met regularly and socialised well. Social services stated in a report that the home schooling Mum was providing was of a high standard.
Do not believe everything you read in the papers. I personally know this family and it is heartbreaking to see the Mum made out to be some kind of controlling abusive parent when the truth is so very different.
And I really do love spongebob 💜

hanora forgive me if I believe the objective family judge rather than a member of an organisation which has been shown to be dubious at best.

Your organisation advocates sterilising healthy children.

We see you.

I did read the full judgement and once again you ( Mermaids) have stepped way over the legal line.

The judge "gagged" the mum from talking to the press ( she had a bbc interview lined up) in order to protect the identity and mental welfare of the child.

I know what is documented - I have read it. Even a court cannot paint the full picture.
As for pushing my own agenda, what is that?
And as for castrating? I certainly don't want that for my child.
I can say that Mermaids was the ONLY place who could give advice when I looked for help. They've been extremely supportive and never pushy. Since I have been a member they have never asked parents or children to appear in the media, so I'm not sure where that nonsense came from.
Kids deserve to be happy this world of narrow mindedness.

I would like to explain a bit about Mermaids following the article I have just read which paints a picture I do not recognise. I would hate for anyone to think that Mermaids is anything like it is described in that article and I want to tell you about it, and to explain why it keeps winning awards for its work as a charity.
Mermaids is just a group of parents, from all walks of life, who come together to support each other at a difficult and often frightening time in our lives.
When our 15-year-old finally found the courage to tell us she thought she must be transgender, we were terrified. We learned that she was having thoughts of suicide and was self-harming because she felt so horrified by her developing body and the future she saw stretching ahead of her in which she could never be herself or feel at peace. Our GP was lovely but admitted he had no idea how to help - it was from Mermaids we found information about the only specialist gender clinic in England which could help our child sort out her feelings.
On nights when we feared that she might not be with us by morning, parents from Mermaids shared stories with us about locking away blades and pills, and sitting up all night on suicide watch: we felt less alone. Other parents assured us that they had come through times like these, and could now see that their children are happily, healthily living authentic lives: we held onto the hope they offered us.
On days when our child felt too awful to leave the house, or even her room, Mermaids parents shared advice about how to make her more comfortable - a dad trained in male grooming shared tips on getting a really good shave, to avoid tell-tale stubble; mums shared their trial-and-error tales of shopping for underwear to give a smooth silhouette; others helped us find shops to buy large-sized shoes. It might sound trivial but it gave our child the courage to pick up her life again.
Later, when her school wanted to know how to help, they took advice from Mermaids not just about the law but about other simple things they could do. They worked together and with Mermaids' help, the teachers were almost as proud as we were when, despite all the lost time, our daughter passed her exams.
When things started to get better, and our daughter seemed to be coming back to life, I kept finding myself, randomly, in tears - in the car, in the shower, once in the supermarket. Nobody could understand it, least of all me - but other Mermaids mums and dads shared their own similar stories and helped me work through what was a kind of grief. Our child was still alive, but we grieved for the future of the child we had lost, and for the past that somehow seemed changed, now that we knew she had lived through secret years of unhappiness. Mermaids helped us see we were not alone.
I know that there are people who are not going to be kind to my daughter. While she looks halfway between a boy and a girl, there will be (have been) those who see a freak, to be mocked or avoided. If she ever comes to a point, some time in the future, where she 'passes' as a girl, the threat of violence will always be there from those who feel she is a 'trick' or a 'cheat' who somehow threatens their identity.
Parents of transgender children are just like any other parents who fear for their children. Please don't let people see Mermaids as something it is not

I'm afraid I don't find the Mermaids statement very credible.

What's that saying? None so blind as those that will not see?

Good grief. Do you not realise how bad that has made the organisation appear! You don't need us to help you dig a hole you are happily doing it for yourselves.

I know what is documented - I have read it.

Confidential documents? Court documents?

Welcome to the influx of Mermaids committee members here to try and change our minds.

You might find it's trickier than you had hoped.

🍿