To think that women should not be referred to as menstruators and pregnant people?

[FRETGNIKCUF]

*This is a thread about the impact trans activism is having on women. This is the beginning.

Don't read on if you're going to whine about another trans thread.*

Julian Vigo (@lubelleludotcom on Twitter) wrote the following.

There is a war on women, folks. The transgender lobby has gone down the rabbit hole by refusing to acknowledge that women's lives and bodies not only matter, but that they are real. Instead women's bodies have become the simulacra in an extended theatre of male entitlement (to be women while telling women to STFU) or they are rendered an extension of male subjectivity such that we now see hairy transmen's female bodies breastfeeding, the only form of female body hair that would ever be allowed in Time magazine.

And now for the latest: we are being called "menstruators" by the same right-wing discourse which seeks to remove the mention of woman from women's healthcare across the USA (ie. now many providers have been pressured to remove the term woman and write instead "pregnant person.") It is as if the last 100 years of women's rights had never occured.

The ironies are multiple. Here you have a group which claims its own marginalisation while working steadily to marginalise an already marginalised group, women. Then you have a group of female people who by virtue of the current transgender identity doxa necessitates "gender dysphoria," yet paradoxically adheres to—and even embraces—the real and symbolic thrust of much of what the female body actually is and produces, a complete opposition to gender dysphoria. Therein lies the greatest contradiction which, not surprisingly, once again holds women hostage: woman is symbolic for those who emulate her, woman is only acceptable inasmuch as she recognises males as females, and women are now relegated to "non-males" by political parties, as "pregnant humans" and "menstruators" by females who reject their bodies yet who hold out for the double-bind of gender in this theatre of cruelty where only a [sic] "man" can truly understood pregnancy, breastfeeding, and motherhood.

The only parallel I can think of is if the KKK were to insist that the Black Panthers stop calling themselves "black", demand that their white hoods be viewed as black, assert that only white people know what it is like to experience life as a black person, and then turn around and maintain that black people are just a group of entitled, bio-essentialist racists.

Olenna

No, it was general. To everyone who is saying that is the only acceptable position. That's your opinion, not mine. The need for clear, unambiguous language is important, it's not just about pronouns. My comment was more addressed to the people on this thread and others who have said or implied that because Blistory is a long established member of FWR that's the party line that everyone should now follow. I don't agree with all her points and I explained in detail why when she said it. I'm sorry I was sharp right after your post, but it's been irritating me for days.

There's a mtt boxer who fights women isnt there?

Fallon Fox.

Olenna I support planned parenthood but this tweet wasn't a one off, it was part of a deliberate move towards "gender neutral" language.

I don't think i'd even heard the word menstruator until recently. What would have been wrong with women or female? I imagine quite a few folk would scratch their heads at menstruator.

From AppleMagic's link above:

" The change in language was sparked by the Tumblr community, she says.

“The Tumblr audience is smart. They understand feminism. They understand that sex ed isn’t one-size-fits-all—even though that’s what they were taught in school,” says Perugini. "

I guess we should all be on Tumblr instead, since that's apparently where the right kind of feminism is to be found.

Sounds like Planned Parenthood is totally on board with the double talk. Here is a short extract from that link which to me shows that they believe that 'woman' is no longer a meaningful term:

'“If someone says ‘I’m a woman and I have sex with women,’ that doesn’t really tell you very much about their behavioral risk for pregnancy or STI prevention,” she says. “But if we ask people what type of anatomy they have and what type of anatomy their partners have and what type of activities they’re engaging in, it’s a much better gauge for are they at risk of pregnancy, what STIs are they at risk for, and we can actually provide more medically accurate and appropriate and sensitive information to clients when we ask for the information that way.”

I do understand why they have the problems they describe, but the approach they are taking does in my view also rather throw women under the bus. I hate having to describe how I 'identify' or to say that I was assigned a sex at birth. This is very different to ticking a heterosexual or homosexual box. The heterosexual box does describe me. The assigned at birth or identification boxes do not.

'“If someone says ‘I’m a woman and I have sex with women,’ that doesn’t really tell you very much about their behavioral risk for pregnancy or STI prevention,” she says. “But if we ask people what type of anatomy they have and what type of anatomy their partners have and what type of activities they’re engaging in, it’s a much better gauge for are they at risk of pregnancy, what STIs are they at risk for, and we can actually provide more medically accurate and appropriate and sensitive information to clients when we ask for the information that way.”

Gosh, if only there were two words to distinguish between the 50% of the population who can get pregnant and the 50% who can produce sperm...

I'm not in favour of mixed gendered loos in public places. Especially in pubs etc, where men can be aggressive enough... If they can follow you into the bathroom to continue harassing you, in an unobserved space it's just not fair.
There is a reason why women have protected bathrooms. If we have mixed spaces all that will happen is women won't feel able to use them and will have to hold on. Like they do in 3rd world countries where going for a poo is risking being raped.

womenanalysingpolicyonwomen.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/women-only-spaces-and-proposed-changes-to-the-equality-act-and-gender-recognition-act/

Pretty much covers everything we have been discussing. Proposed changes to the law affecting female spaces and services.

Nooka,

you have a problem with services and advice being offered to a woman with a penis who could be having sex with a man with a vagina?

I'm not seeing anything in the Government's response to the transgender enquiry that supports women's existing rights to female only spaces, female medical professionals and female healthcare assistants/carers for personal care.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/535764/Government_Response_to_the_Women_and_Equalities_Committee_Report_on_Transgender_Equality.pdf

Gosh, if only there were two words to distinguish between the 50% of the population who can get pregnant and the 50% who can produce sperm...

I have no problem with services being offered to men or women. Why would you assume that? I do not think that it is accurate or helpful to describe someone with a penis as a woman, or someone with a vagina as a man. I certainly don't think that just because a tiny proportion of people are dysphobic about their sexed bodies we should throw away the definition of widely used and helpful words. Doing so fucks with language and risks causing problems to large groups of people, mostly women. I think that matters, especially in countries like the States when women getting access to reproductive healthcare is a massive issue.

On the pisitive side though - Maybe now that pregnancy, miscarriage and abortion are now male issues and not just female issues - things will improve. It was often said that if men had periods, fell pregnant, carried to term, gave birth, breast fed, miscarried or needed abortions - then provision and understanding would be taken more seriously and improved upon. Now men can do all these things - i'm looking forward to improvements with all these issues.

Venus, thanks. Couldn't remember the name.

bambini

I think you will be in for a bloody long wait

'a woman with a penis who could be having sex with a man with a vagina'

but there's no such things in the world

do you mean a man with a penis having sex with a woman with a vagina?

Or a woman with a strapless having sex with a man with a front hole?

Winchesterwoman - are you transphobic? Of course men can have vaginas and women can have penises. Science backs it up.

Oh god, its late, i am tired and i can't tell if bambambini is joking or not

Neither can I. That's really saying something, eh!

I think hope it's a joke

It's no joke to trans folk. Time to update sex education in our schools. Support young transitioners and teach our kids to accept and learn about all genders, what we teach our young needs to reflect this. Biology and how we see the old sex binary has changed, science proves this.

Bambini
Has anybody ever said yet what is the definition of a woman with a penis - as in, what makes them a woman?

Are any of the 'opposing voices' on the thread able to say what is common to women and transwomen, the necessary and sufficient condition that makes them of one sex?

It's quite hard to defend a new definition if you can't come up with the definition in the first place. Surely someone should be able to do that?

"Science backs it up."

Please be joking.