Cavan family annihilation by a "brilliant Dad"

[DoinItFine]

Is anyone else reading all about what an amazing guy Alan Hawe was with mounting disbelief and fury?

He stabbed his wife and three sons to death in a frenzied attack and then hung himself.

But poor him, he must have bern awful tortured. And he went to mass all the time.

Great Dad

You know when you read awful threads about abuse on MN and then out it comes "he's a great Dad", and you think "what does a man have to do to losr that label?"

Well apparently you can murder your 3 kids and still keep the Great Dad title.

I wonder what their son's text was about? That was very strange.

It was interesting that people wanting to give money in lieu of flowers were told to support a charity for those affected by suicide, rather than a domestic violence charity.

You don't make definitive statements about suspicious death - especially multiple deaths - until forensic details come in and the pathologist has made a report

Who said anything about definitive statements?

The police knew that Clodagh hadn't hacked herself to death with an axe.

They made a point of pretending that what had happened in the house was a mystery.

it's standard operating procedure for every police force everywhere

Then it's definitely not sexist.

No way.

They made a point of pretending that what had happened in the house was a mystery.

No. They released fuck all details to avoid prejudicing an ongoing investigation.

Just like they're supposed to do.

When all the people involved are dead, it's hard to see how releasing known facts could "prejudice" anything.

The term "murder suicide" is horrible too.

Like it's just a type of suicide.

No, it was first snd foremostly 4 brutal murders.

The fact that the bastard who did it killed himself afterwards doesn't maje the suicide the important part.

When all the people involved are dead, it's hard to see how releasing known facts could "prejudice" anything.

What "known facts"? Things you've read in the papers or on fb?

Alan Hawes being dead means there won't be a criminal trial. However, there will be a coroner's inquest, with a jury, and that's where the facts will be established and placed on the public record. It's not appropriate for the gardai to pre-empt the findings of the coroner's court.

Alan hung himself. The others were stabbed, strangled and hacked to death.

It was obvious who was the murderer. To release those details wasn't going to compromise any investigation. Yet the guards, as user pointed out, did seem to make it a bit of a mystery.

It's a bit inappropriate that the money in lieu of flowers is going to a suicide charity?

This obsession about not speaking ill of the dead is classic small town Ireland. They never stop to think that by eulogizing the husband, they are dishonoring the woman's memory, overlooking her suffering to avoid ruffling small town feelings.

If all reminds me of that horrible rape case in Kerry where a 72 year old woman was raped by a local young guy who broke into her home, almost as a 'lark' after getting blind drunk while out earlier that night. He was totally callous about it and clearly a very twisted individual. Yet still we had the comments in the media how he was 'never in trouble with police before' and 'came from a good family'. Made me fuming mad at the time. He committed a revolting, violent crime - who cares who he is? The focus should be on the victim, always.

Double page "Why?" article in Belfast Telegraph today refers to it as "murder-suicide" several times. Does not use the term "family annihilator" at all. Quote from clinical psychologist suggests killer wanting to spare family from perceived terrible world as motivation. "the virtue is trying to save their children from what they perceive to be unimaginable pain". No other motivating factors suggested, no discussion of cases where the killer was an out and out nasty controlling bastard who killed what he viewed as his property.

Interestingly, the psychologist prefaced his remarks by saying, "There's no idea or no understanding that makes the tragedy of murder-suicide or suicide completely palatable....(but) there are a couple of (ways of) understanding that I think can help people process the experience of it". So making it palatable and avoiding hurting anyone's feelings must be the most important thing, not examining other potential reasons.

The article talks about suicide and suicide awareness/prevention at length. All very laudable I'm sure. The article does not mention the phrase "domestic violence" physical or emotional abuse or make any reference to the number of women killed by their current or former partners.
The whole article frames the incident primarily as suicide, despite the fact that only one person died by suicide here; four died by ultra violent, terrifying and painful murder.

He was treasurer of the local Gaelic football club. Maybe there were some financial irregularities he was afraid would come to light, or that his family would be deeply ashamed of him if he took his own life and they found out so they were all better off dead. Not making excuses.. just trying to think of reasons for a man everyone was shocked about doing what he did. Sometimes these things can be staged too but doesn't sound like he was active politically etc.

The emphasis on suicide is bizarre.
Had he failed to hang himself, I wonder what then would have been said?

The idea that this is a 'caring' man is sick and absurd. Why are they spreading this propaganda/his propoganda?

So making it palatable and avoiding hurting anyone's feelings must be the most important thing

Yes, that seems to be the most important consideration.

Rosita Boland's article in the Irish Times, what the priest is reported to have said at the funeral - all about the "community" and their pain and how it must be minimised.

It is easier for them if the story is that the msn they liked and admired was temporarily posessed and did something he has no respinsibility for.

Then everyone can cry about how terrible and "beyond understanding" this mass murder was and everything can go back to normal.

Priority - the status quo, the comfort of the living

Unimportant - any honest dealing with the reality of what happened to Clodagh, Liam, Niall, and Ryan.

The Mirror has been less dreadful than others in actually focusing on the victims of this crime, not its perpetrator, or being "respectfully" silent on the matter.

Traumatised family lay suicide Dad to rest with family that he murdered

The homily given at the funeral:

"How such goodness could be destroyed? How such happiness could be invaded? How? Why? It is not for us to seek answers or to surmise about behaviour"

No respect at all.

And then this:

"Clodagh with her scones, red jam and mug of coffee, Liam, Niall and Ryan busily, like budding engineers building all kinds of Lego.

"Alan standing with his back to the kitchen sink totally at ease enjoying the antics of unspoiled and respectful sons."

Doesn't he realise how sinister that all sounds now that we know Alan murdered the other 4?

Not for us to seek answers??? Yes, let's all just wring our hands and shrug our shoulders and get on with sweeping the whole sorry mess under the carpet. Absolutely shameful.

A lovely send-off for a child killer. "Let's not talk about what he did, that's too weird, let's just remember he loved his kids..."

"How such goodness could be destroyed? How such happiness could be invaded? How? Why? It is not for us to seek answers or to surmise about behaviour"

I am beyond fury at this. Just utterly, utterly shameful.

The homily would have been written after consultation with the families though, and he would have taken his tone from their request. He would never ever have said anything that upset them. That's not his job. At all!

I think he was basically saying "We don't know what happened to trigger this, let's leave it for the guards investigation".

Blasting Alan old school style from the pulpit whilst his family is sitting there having lost 5 people would be calling vengeance on the dead whilst not being sensitive to the living, who are his parishioners and who he has a duty of pastoral care towards.

Of course the priority for him is the comfort of the living! That's his job!

I am fascinated as to what you all think he should have said, tbh.

His job is not to disrespect a murdered woman's memory.

There are plenty of things he could have said that did not praise a mass murderer as being a wonderful family man.

"unspoiled and respectful sons"??
Apart from

• mental illness/save them from the world killers (the only type considered here)

and more commonly

• self righteous killers (who blame wife)
• anomic killers (who view family as status symbols to be destroyed if perfection likely to collapse)

the fourth type of family annihilator, according to people who spend their careers studying these things and so actually know what they're on about, is

• the disappointed father. Typically "honour killings" but could include a man whose perfect respectful unspoiled minions show signs of rebelling against him.

I do my know what he should have said. That's his job, not mine. All I know is that he should not have continued to obliterate the memory of a murdered woman and continue to paint her murderer of her children as a good family man, and they whole thing as some sort of terrible accident.

So we now know that among the several notes Alan Hawes left, one said that his family would not be able to cope without him.

Classic sign of a narcissist controller.

So the priest says we mustn't seek answers or surmise while simultaneously placing a collection box for a religious suicide charity at the funeral? So not being totally neutral then.

And as for the comment about Alan standing watching his 'respectful and unspoiled sons' ... More praise for a brilliant dad, while apparently failing to comment on the fact that he murdered them??

Pretty sickening.

Yes, the suicide charity collecting box was outrageous. And I don't care if that's what the family wanted. It's up to the priest to give advice and guidance. And ultimately to say what he wants to happen in his church.

Alan did commit suicide, and Pieta House is an incredible charity. If that's what the family wanted, then he had no grounds to refuse it.

Again, you're wanting him to act like some old school priest. That's the exact opposite of how they act these days. There's a fundamental misunderstanding here of how they work. Priests are no longer allowed to take positions of judgement, not even of mass murderers.

I can't believe I'm even having to explain that tbh.

He is their parish priest. He would have no grounds to refuse them. But he had every opportunity, and, indeed, a duty to advise them. And he does have a say in what goes on in his church.