Breastfeeding and attachment parenting - your thoughts

[awfulpersonme]

I've not posted on this board before but have lurked a lot.

I'm interested to see what you think about two things I have thought about a lot in recent weeks - breastfeeding and attachment parenting.

I breastfeed my 5 month old and as such was on a few Facebook groups for support. On these groups I have seen comments stating that women who ff should not have children, that formula should only be available on prescription for babies who need it medically, and asking for tips on how to persuade their female friends and relatives to breastfeed their babies. These groups are largely AP based.

So:

1. Is pressurising women to breastfeed essentially anti feminist? Isn't it just another way of telling us what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies, another way of making female bodies public property?

2. aren't a lot of the attachment parenting principles essentially quite anti-woman? Every AP group I've seen seems to place a mother's need for outside stimulation, sleep, and good mental health as far, far below the needs of her children (at all ages, not just newborns and young babies). The idea that you must be around your baby 24/7 just seems to me to be another way of keeping women firmly "in their place".

What do you all think??

Cross post with Steve. I agree that BF needn't mean dad does little childcare. Same for babywearing and co-sleeping. They are all perceived to limit male involvement though I think.

Yes Furry I would have found the same. After saying I would never have a baby in my bed, I co slept with my DC3 because it was easier. We used slings on number 2 and number 3 because they and we loved them. But as I said DH was as much part of these decisions as I was and I don't believe in AP because I believe in parenting the unique child in a way that works for you and them.

Also I also found support for BF was utter shite in Ireland and a massive part of the issue with BF. Promotion without support is just fucking cruel.

I don't wear a sling much or co sleep because my DS hates both these things much to my disappointment

That's not really what I was talking about - it's more than from what I have seen AP seems to advocate the needs of the mother coming last.

I also found support for BF was utter shite in Ireland and a massive part of the issue with BF. Promotion without support is just fucking cruel

But what do you mean by "support" ?

I had a nanny, a cleaner and a husband who did as much as he could. What else was going to help? It was painful; I had mastitis ; it made me feel sick and I was not producing enough milk.

I assume by support she means feeding issues that can be identified and resolved if the woman did want to continue to breastfeed. Eg tongue tie or reflux or Cmpi or a dodgy latch etc etc.

I consider myself an AP parent, and I bf my son. I do not share the views of those you mentioned, but I know that some fb groups can get certain extreme views, one way or other when it comes to parenting! I have found some nice, small local AP groups that are not like that. I think as with many things, you have to pick and choose what you want to take from it. I try to parent from a scientific perspective, to allow my child the healthiest and happiest life possible, both physically and mentally. Our attachment is strong thanks to the way I have parented. You don't need these groups if they annoy you - some peoples views are just extreme and quite frankly revolting. Parent how you feel, and perhaps invest in some books that are more "laid back" as it were :)

it's more than from what I have seen AP seems to advocate the needs of the mother coming last

I think most parenting versions we see extolled in modern society involves the needs of the children coming first no? The crying shame is when men don't get down and dirty with the parenting and share the load. As you can see from this thread though many people have been able to take from what are considered to be AP parenting techniques remember I think it is a nonsense term and make them work in a feminist household.

The bottom line is if you have two parents who share the burden of parenting between them you can have a feminist household whether you BF or FF or whether you parent in a more traditional manner or not.

I was judged for going on to ff after bf for 3 months, every day of which was a nightmare- fussy, colicky baby, bleeding, blistered nips etc. As a feminist I think what women (exhausted, inadequate feeling, bewildered new mums particularly)need from other women is SUPPORT. It was very upsetting and disappointing that some people who devote so much energy to being the perfect parent can't act like a human being towards those who do things differently. I'd rather be a nice ff mum than a baby wearing, breastfeeding, cosleeping bitch. God, 10 years on and it still upsets me. Sisterhood eh?

My experience of the bf "support" is exactly the same as the OP. My HV spent two hours with me trying to get DD to latch without causing me agonising pain. Even though she didn't say it, I could tell she had sympathy with my wanting to FF because the latch just wasn't happening. At no point were tongue or lip ties even mentioned and I didn't know about them at the time. She just didn't seem to know about potential bf problems.

My experience of bf support / lack of suppprt when i decided to FF angered me so much I debated putting in a complaint to the health board. I felt they were implyang my child was no longer important now she wasn't being bf.

That's how I feel Maisy

This article kinda summed it up for me in feminist terms - it's very interesting.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jul/30/attachment-parenting-best-way-raise-child-or-maternal-masochism

I've wondered the same, OP - full-on attachment parenting seems un-feminist as it's the women who is expected to sacrifice herself to motherhood. Knowing that Sears was a fundamentalist Christian explains a lot.

I had planned to breastfeed, but couldn't get it established so switched to formula within the first week. That was over a year ago and I still feel like I need to justify how much I struggled and how scared I was of getting PND to justify switching to formula. I was expected to breastfeed as a university-educated older mother, and my sisters and close friends had all BF (though all mixed-fed to varying degrees), so I felt an oddity that way.

To be honest, FF was better for me. I could have a break from the baby, and DH could be fully involved - he'd do feeds one night at weekends so I could rest. I also much preferred knowing how much she was eating. Anecdotally, of the other four women on my antenatal course, one EBF, two started out BFing then switched to formula after a few months, and one didn't want to BF so didn't try. A fairly typical group I think.

I also feel that the focus on having a natural birth with no pain relief is un-feminist - I'm aware that the natural birth movement started as a backlash to heavily medicalised births, but there are so many horror stories of women being denied pain relief and the implication that they shouldn't need it - I think it's another example of the needs of the mother coming last.

Lass I mean BF support. As I said my 3 had tongue ties which were not diagnosed until I had my third - not much use to my first 2. My health nurse told me to give up BF rather than make any attempt to find out what was wrong and said she has FF all of her kids and they were fine. When I BF my third I realised just how useless she was when I saw her in action at BF groups fibbing rubbish advice week after well. My doctor told me he did could not treat thrush in breast feeding women as it was contraindicated - not so according to other doctors. I had poor advice on mastitis which I got on all 3 of mine. Tbh I had the world of shit BF support most of which I have condemned to the annals of my mind so I am not getting it all in here.

What I found on my 3rd was a knowledgable supportive lactation consultant and that made a massive difference but I still had to get through a very tough early start but at least once I found her things started improving immediately.

Ellie me too: nearly 40, well educated, professional job, I felt such a failure at the time for seemingly being incapable of coping with the pain of bf. Little did I know.

I loved FF and so did DD. I'm 43 now so unlikely to have another, but if I did I would mix feed from the start I think.

Purplebluebird, it's really insulting that you say your attachment with your child is strong because of the way you parented! That's exactly the kind of judgemental comments that AP groups are known for.

I FF, she was in a Moses basket instead of co-sleeping, moved into her own room at four months, and has never been a cuddly baby. But I still responded to her every need, and we are securely attached (in the actual definition of attachment by Bowlby). I hate the assumption by parents that do AP that if you're practically neglecting your child if you do anything else.

Hear hear, Ellie.

Purplebluebird, it's really insulting that you say your attachment with your child is strong because of the way you parented

That is why these discussions never end well so I am going to bow out after this. Purple said her way of parenting worked to create a strong bond for her with her children, other posters are inferring from that that she does not believe any other parenting could create a strong bond, she never said that. That is why I am so anti the term AP it is just bloody parenting in the way that works.

It's attachment parenting not mothering.

Ellie you can still FF and not bed share and still "AP" your child. It's about being responsive and compassionate in raising your child.

I guess I did all the ap stuff; baby wearing, cosleeping, extended bfing, no sleep training etc with dd1. It was less a conscious decision and more the in,y thing that worked with dd. I suppose I don't really see it as a way of keeping women down, I struggled with pnd and couldn't spend any time away from dd1 because she fed so frequently and I could never express. I could have given her formula but in my pnd haze it never really crossed my mind.

However, I would never even consider telling some one else how to parent their children or judge them. I'm a 'whatever works for you' type. I also consider myself a feminist and bring dd up with string feminist principles (as does dh) so I don't think they are exclusive.

I was expected to breastfeed as a university-educated older mother

Me too.

Confused, Ellie and Maisy - what you describe could be me.

And there are so much fads and fashions. In 1990 we were told get baby into their own room asap ; swaddle them and put them on their side with a rolled up blanket to support them ; co- sleeping is dangerous.

I think the phrase Our attachment is strong thanks to the way I parented does imply that she thinks a different way of parenting wouldn't create a strong attachment, actually.

That Guardian article is interesting (though the photos seem selected to give off a creepy vibe, I think!), but it does state that most if not all of the interviews were with families where the women had led the decision to AP. And as women do most of the childcare, the 'extra work' with AP does fall on the mothers. For example, the mothers I know who have toddlers who don't sleep through are still BF them, meaning they deal with the might wakings, not the dads (anecdotal of course, not all BF toddlers still wake at night).

I would think most parents are compassionate and responsive to their child, suggesting that is an AP characteristic is pretty odd!

I'm currently pregnant with DC1, but have been thinking about these issues for a number of years (since I had a friend who was/is an attachment parent, which obviously brought it to my attention).

I think it depends on how it's done. My friend became quite entrenched in it all, and I would say very extreme. Wouldn't leave the baby alone with her DH at all, etc. Her life did become very restricted. The last time I talked to her, she was slagging off working mothers- "why bother having a child if you just leave it and work all day?" She didn't get my point at all when I asked when her husband planned to give up work I don't think for a second that all attachment parents think like this! Unfortunately, the combination of her personality (quite obsessive), and the AP, has meant that her life is controlled by it to a large extent.

For me, feminism is about choice. Women should be given information, and trusted to make their own decisions. We should respect and support the choices of other women (as long as they aren't dangerous, obviously).

I've already had a bit of a run-in with my midwife about breastfeeding. I do feel that I am being pushed to do it, and I will certainly give it a go, and I hope that I succeed. However, I watched a close family member battle to breastfeed her baby last year (ultimately with little success). She has been destroyed by what she perceives as a failure to be a 'proper' mother. It's flipping awful to see. I'm not going to beat myself up if I don't want to/ can't do it. It's not the defining act of a 'good' mother. I also agree with what a previous poster said- women are often set up to fail with breastfeeding: everything encourages us to do it, but postnatal support can be patchy, and this can lead to women switching to formula and feeling like 'failures'. It's this that I object to, strongly.

DP and I have relatives currently expecting, we have 2 kids our selves (fairly AP now that I read about it - co-sleeping saved my sanity with DS1, and we both seem to lack the spacial awareness to drive a buggy without continually crashing it into things so we used a mei-tai - thank goodness the kids both started walking before they got heavy!), and because of all this, we're really, really hesitant to give any advice beyond that all kids are different, and they should ignore any advice from anyone else that doesn't work for them.

I think, especially with a first child, you're so in the dark, so desperate to get it right, so worried, that you latch onto something and so many people then think that's the 'one true path' when that's just not the case (the idea of keeping clean bottles for FF for instance was terrifying to someone who could often not find a clean mug, but BF - post afterpains - didn't bother me at all - perhaps because, like others, it was the norm in my family)

I wish I still had my Penelope Leach baby handbook from the 1990s. She was the middle-class mummies guru back then. I had no family near me and only one of my friends had a baby. We both followed Penelope slavishly.

Now I read so many things on here and just go -what??

Co-sleeping was definitely frowned on. Useless health visitor gave me a ticking off for telling her that she managed to turn up just as baby I and were dropping off to sleep in my bed.

I'm very much a feminist and I am doing all of the typical 'AP' things, as labelled, and I think the perspective here could be wrong.

Breastfeeding is talked about like its special, like its hard work, and formula is talked about like it's easier, and giving up. There's only one type of person who benefits from the conversation being forced into this limited debate, and that's the formula companies.

Really, what we need to be saying is, breastfeeding is the biological norm. It is how babies are designed to feed and mothers are designed to feed. The idea that someone could not have enough milk (statistically less than 1% of women) or that it's just too hard, is down to lack of communication between women and training of health care staff. Breastfeeding training is optional for midwives, they can choose it as an elective. Breasts are so sexualised that the topic of breastfeeding is taboo, and so the correct information doesn't make it to the right person at the right time.

It absolutely is a feminist issue. My breasts are designed for feeding children. I will use them in that way with no shame.

And who exactly decided that raising children and being at home is not as worthy a task as going off to work? Fucking hell. The whole point here isn't to just act like we think men act like is it? Traditionally 'women's work' has been seen as less, so that means what... We stop doing it and act like the men? NO. We demand the respect and recognition of the value of the work we do. Inside or outside of the home. There's a reason boys are shamed with words like 'crying like a girl, throw like a girl' because our work is seen as less. Don't join in and agree that it is, for Christ sake, because raising a child is really fucking hard and it's value shouldn't be mocked to make yourself look stronger.

My year of maternity leave with each of my children was just as worthy as any year spent doing anything else.