Breastfeeding and attachment parenting - your thoughts

[awfulpersonme]

I've not posted on this board before but have lurked a lot.

I'm interested to see what you think about two things I have thought about a lot in recent weeks - breastfeeding and attachment parenting.

I breastfeed my 5 month old and as such was on a few Facebook groups for support. On these groups I have seen comments stating that women who ff should not have children, that formula should only be available on prescription for babies who need it medically, and asking for tips on how to persuade their female friends and relatives to breastfeed their babies. These groups are largely AP based.

So:

1. Is pressurising women to breastfeed essentially anti feminist? Isn't it just another way of telling us what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies, another way of making female bodies public property?

2. aren't a lot of the attachment parenting principles essentially quite anti-woman? Every AP group I've seen seems to place a mother's need for outside stimulation, sleep, and good mental health as far, far below the needs of her children (at all ages, not just newborns and young babies). The idea that you must be around your baby 24/7 just seems to me to be another way of keeping women firmly "in their place".

What do you all think??

I think this attachment patenting thing is created to shift books.
I breastfed for about 2 years and still sleep with her most nights. On paper this is AP, but I also leave her for 8-10 hours per day to work.
I agree it is all about bugging women, and we spend time worrying about this crap rather than other things like how are children are feeling or what we need to be doing at work.
Also getting started to breast feed is a total nightmare so it is not natural to use formula as well.

Yes, I agree. I don't know much about AP so focussed on bf.

It is Only natural to use formula!!!! Not trying to start a ruck, honest!!!

I don't know what attachment parenting is. It didn't exist in 1990.

I was however put under huge pressure by midwives, health visitor and NCT "feeding counsellor" to breastfeed.

Health visitor and so called "feeding counsellor" refused to give any advice about formula feeding and how to introduce it despite both knowing it wasn't working for me or baby and that I was returning to work full time. One of them made the awe- inspiringly useless suggestion that I could express for feeds when I was at work; despite being told expressing produced a dribble of milk. The NCT woman in particular just parroted "breast is best".

As for the " everyone produces enough milk" lie, I can assure you that is a lie.

26 years on and I still bear a grudge against both those women. I was at the point of really resenting my baby.

I agree completely mad I think there is bog all useful support for women who desperately want to bfeed but are struggling for whatever reason. I myself was given dreadful advice in hospital. Luckily my mum breastfed four of us so I had her support and she knew what she was talking about. Had I taken the hospital's advice it could have prevented feeding becoming established.

I was talking about women who don't want to at all, or who have started but want to stop, or who want to combination feed.

I'm not sure it's AP specifically that enslaves women to their babies. The 'non-AP' alternatives aren't especially women friendly. The vast majority of bottle feeding mums I know/have known are the ones washing and sterilising the bottles, making up feeds as well as all the nappy changing etc. Some have a partner who will warm a prepared bottle up for a night feed once a week, others more often and one or two that do all night feeds.

My DH fed our babies once each, they were never much interested in a bottle (and I hated expressing) but he's done plenty of nappy changes, bath times, and generally given me time to be by myself.

And of course there are many parents in between, however a baby is fed.

One thing I see on both sides is saying that expressing is the answer. Want to leave your baby with someone else sometimes? Just express! Don't want to breastfeed? Just express! Expressing can be a solution. Mix feeding could be another, but nobody seems to be allowed to talk about it which is daft because with the right information mix feeding could extend breastfeeding rather than causing supply issues.

Women that FF say they felt under pressure to BF, women who BF say they felt under pressure to FF.

Perhaps it is the circles people move in. I have never felt pressure to BF myself as in my family it is just normal and I never expected I wouldn't.

If it was making me unhappy I would switch to formula in a heartbeat though.

Yy to never being allowed to talk about mix feeding.

I've never experienced any pressure to BF either, but I had plenty of pressure to FF, particularly on my twins.

Yy to mix feeding and to the idea that expressing is a solution to everything. Again, lots of people were at me to express for my twins. Why on earth would I add another layer of work (expressing, washing 2 bottles, feeding 2 bottles) when I had enough to be doing with newborn twins and a 18.5mo?

I definitely have more faith in myself and our parenting choices the second time around. We lived with my PILs when DS1 was a baby and it was so hard having to justify every little thing I did.

My MIL was quite old-school as regards parenting but interestingly subscribes to the ideals that a woman should do everything for her husband and children without complaint because that is her lot in life. I am determined NOT to buy into that

I was talking about women who don't want to at all, or who have started but want to stop, or who want to combination feed

I got zero advice on how to stop or how to do combination feeding. The NCT woman refused to discuss anything other than bf and health visitor said she wasn't allowed to promote formula, which she was interpreting as even answering questions about it.

The Eagle are you in the UK? As far as I am aware pushing ff is not allowed.

I think every woman has the right to choose, and as pps have said, anything that removes that choice is anti feminist.

For me, my understanding of the issue is based on the availability of access to information. Before social media/internet, we had very little access to anything beyond our own cultural experiences and books. The only source of information was those around us, old wives tales and medical professionals. Gina Ford is very different to Miriam Stoppard, for example, you take whatever you choose from their books and make it work. A book can't call you a loser/bad mum.

Now, though, there are hundreds of groups popping up, trying to reinvent the wheel (each generation wants to improve on the previous and likes to appear 'new') for all different styles of anything, complete with lists of rules that you must adhere to. Whilst it can be supportive, things can become very twisted, bent out of proportion and people who do not subscribe completely can face an utter backlash from followers whose only information is what people have quickly typed out (and is often very brief!).

Information is key, access to information is vital. Judgement from others is not (and these days, that judgement is instant!) I can only think we need to encourage mothers to follow their own instincts, rather than trying to conform to some trendy 'label'.

Ap always seems to involve baby being attached to mum not dad.
Yes it's anti feminist. And very excluding to dads or co parents.

On the first I feel that the shift from breastfeeding to formula feeding was very paternalistic in its origin and was completely anti feminist. The politics of BF helped along the way to me forming that view and is well worth a read. I believe that the most equal society in the world also has the highest BF rates so it is possible for a shift towards more feminist BF. I have seen as many women who are completely cast as the predominant parenting role in both sides, it is not the feeding method which determines this imhe. The majority of my BF friends are educated and are professionals from higher socioeconomic groups who are the ones who return to work and so need involved husbands and actually have them in the main.

Attachment parenting is a complete fallacy. Many things I did along the way were attachment, some things were not, same as every decent parent in history. If you are completely welded to a made up parenting type then you are not using your intuition and nobody needs that.

I'm not in the UK, I'm in Ireland. The pressure to FF didn't come from healthcare professionals but from some family members and well-meaning friends.

Just to be clear

I am not saying breastfeeding itself is anti feminist, that would be absurd

I am saying women being told they have to breastfeed is anti feminist

Interestingly my experience of the NHS is that they push breastfeeding and are very much breast is best, however their HCP know bog all about it and their solution to a totally normal bfeeding issue is to give formula, which strikes me as very odd. That was my experience anyway.

It appears to me that it's only acceptable in some circles to ff if you have suffered through hell trying to BF first. Much like it's only acceptable to sleep train if you are demented with exhaustion.

Mothers try to justify themselves when they shouldn't have to.

Oh and as for lies about breastfeeding the NCT woman told me I was imagining that it made me feel sick. The wonders of Google many years later confirmed I was not imagining it but it's not anything you will be told about.

The other huge lie was how inconvenient sterilising bottles is. Electric steam sterilisers are an absolute doddle. Breastfeeding was a nightmare and the NCT woman in particular made it clear she was judging me; the health visitor was just useless.

I am saying women being told they have to breastfeed is anti feminist

It's certainly anti-woman and in my experience it was other women who were pushing it and being judgemental.

I wouldn't describe myself as an attachment parent but I bf and co slept with both kids. Did baby wearing with dd as she was super clingy. Ds could be dumped anywhere and still be happy.

It certainly was hard work but I was happy to do it. I don't know how you can look after small children and babies without it having a massive impact on you.

Totally true. I mean, breastfeeding is probably best for children, but why should children be more important than women
I kind of agree with this (from Vestsl) but we are talking about parents and their children. I personally think my kids are more important than me, dh would say the same. So I sacrifice a lot of myself looking after them - I wouldn't do that for someone else's kid.

The majority of my BF friends are educated and are professionals from higher socioeconomic groups who are the ones who return to work and so need involved husbands and actually have them in the main

I am an educated professional who returned to work. As my husband didn't lactate there was little he could do (we had domestic help) beyond telling me to stop being a martyr as he, unlike the so called professionals , could see how ill and depressed bf was making me.

I am saying women being told they have to breastfeed is anti feminist

Does anyone who is not crackers tell women this? Normally they just point to the benefits of BF for mother and baby.

I am Irish as well as The Eagle so I cannot comment on the NHS but definitely BF is promoted here however some people consider that pushing but largely I have found that is because it is a bit stinging to be told you are not doing the 'best' thing for your child. I have FF 2 so I'll admit it irked me.

I think the extremist BF and FF put people off having children so there is not much point looking to them for input.

steve

Sadly I've seen it a lot. I've seen someone who was sucidal with pnd be told it didn't matter how she felt as long as her child was getting breast milk.

Lass As I said up thread I FF 2 kids because BF was hideous due to undiagnosed TT so I totally get giving up and on my two I lasted 2 weeks.

My third also an awful BF start though it did show me how involved dads can be. I rarely changed a nappy if DH was around, he carried him in a sling and regularly took all 3 off out of the house for a couple of hours at a time, as well as doing a fair chunk of housework and cooking. I just don't buy that line that gets trotted out about men not being able to help when babies are BF.

I agree that as a philosophy AP is pretty anti-feminist. But the parenting practices that constitute AP i find very useful. I didn't co-sleep with my newborn because I thought I should- I did it because it meant we both slept! Ditto slings- I can get things done. In real life, I suspect most people who co-sleep or baby wear do so for convenience, not for philosophical reasons.

BF is a more complex issue I think. Women can undoubtedly feel under huge pressure to BF, but equally can come under huge pressure not to do so too long/too frequently/to supplement with formula so Dad can 'bond'. And while I'm sure health professionals are terrible at giving advice on how to combination feed/stop BF/FF, they're equally terrible at supporting BF. In fact the woeful state of all medical advice relating to infant feeding of all kinds (but particularly the aspects about the mother rather than the baby- eg mastitis) is a fabulous example of systemic misogyny in my view.

I just don't buy that line that gets trotted out about men not being able to help when babies are BF

Well when he wasn't at work he pretty much did everything except lactate. I'm not sure exactly what more he could have done as other than actually attaching a baby to his nipple there wasn't anything which he didn't do. On the other hand feeding was pretty much all I did .So personally I'm extremely sceptical that bf would just be fine and dandy if only dad mucked in. That particular line seems to be designed to make both parents feel guilty.

Sadly I've seen it a lot. I've seen someone who was sucidal with pnd be told it didn't matter how she felt as long as her child was getting breast milk

I wasn't suicidal by any means but I was starting to get depressed. The NCT woman did at one point tell me my feelings were irrelevant as breastfeeding was best for baby.