Abortion Support Network- abortion not just a women's issue?

[Doobigetta]

Apologies- I know lots of people are sick of hearing about the trans issue. But I received the following email from the ASN today-

Calling all creative minds
Six and a half years ago we were very fortunate to have someone design a logo for us. Our logo has served us well but ASN has grown and we feel it’s time for our brand to have a bit of a touch up. We are particularly interested in a logo that is more in line with the fact that we sometimes hear from trans people and others who do not consider themselves to be women. At ASN we’ve crowd sourced everything from our first logo to our director’s 2015 salary and we thought we’d do the same with our new logo. Interested? Email us and we'll send you the brief. You don’t even need to be an "official" - if our favourite image is a doodle we can get one of our amazing volunteer designers whip it into a graphic. We can’t wait to see what you come up with!

I've responded to say I'd be very unhappy about them badging abortion rights as anything other than a women's issue, and that I feel conflating it with questions of gender identity weakens and undermines the importance of it as a women's issue. Please, if you feel the same way, could you let ASN know?

"we don't want to exclude anyone, and needing an abortion isn't dependent upon gender identity"

Of course it isn't. Woman is a sex. Not a gender identity.

This makes me so angry.

Since when is that symbol about gender identity, anyway? I have seen it used for plants. Plants do not have gender identities. And I am quite sure nor do most animals.

my email...
I am uncomfortable with the idea of redesigning the logo to negate abortion as a women's issue. Regardless of someone's gender identity, the fact remains that only biological female's are disadvantaged by the laws surrounding abortion in Ireland, and I feel that trying to make it gender-inclusive will backfire by negating the equality laws that Ireland are currently on the wrong side of

I fear that once it becomes a 'trans-men need access to abortions too' (which I don't doubt they do, of course) issue, rather than a 'females (as in the sex that have eggs and can bear young) need access to abortions' issue, it will muddy the issue as sex discrimination.

Sex exists, and abortion rights affect the female sex.

And then it looks like we all got the same c&p reply. Disappointing :(

^^ great email Beyond
How dare they be so fickle and fucking gullible as to have their heads turned by the trans lobby.

I've replied, and asked how they believe removing the women's symbol from their logo is a positive step for women.

(That's not all I said).

honestly don't know what to say to this.

I agree with Thequesting, I do support this charity at the moment, and am seriously re thinking it. I am an Irish woman and would be very concerned at women being erased from the debate on repealing the 8th.

I honestly don't know how to respond to their reply. I don't think they read what I said at all.

Emailed them and cancelled my standing order
I'm so so conflicted about doing this but I honestly don't think they are capable to delivering their services properly if they can have their heads turned so easily by a small number of the trans community.
I'd seen the subtle change in language a few months and gave them the benefit of the doubt, thinking they maybe had to use 'inclusionary' language in order to access some grants.
Now I've seen it's a bigger move, I need to step back

I'm a trustee of a small charity, and when we slightly changed our focus, we had to go through a number of procedural hoops, including amending our legal articles.
I'm going to do some research into the minutes of recent ASN trustee meetings to see if this has been done correctly and if so, who was driving it.

I'm involved in a small way with an abortion action group in Ireland (we have a LONG way to go) and they started coming out with that shite as well -" not only women need abortions" -I took it up with them on their FB page and got this borglike response but hearteningly quite a few other women were agreeing with me. Fucking hell. I was marching for reproductive rights in the late 80s; not only have we got fucking nowhere but a new bizarre front has opened up.. abortion isn't even a women's issue anymore.

I honestly don't know how to respond to their reply. I don't think they read what I said at all.

Say that. I'm bloody well going to

Good point, dacre!

I sent (having already outed myself should they read this thread by posting my first email!)

Thank you for your quick reply

I am stuck on how to respond to it though - it feels as if you didn't actually read my email at all? I have no issues with you redesigning the logo, it is the problems I worry that can result from the wider attempt to be 'gender inclusive', rather than addressing abortion access as a sex issue (which it is).

I hope you are able to reassure me

This is so frustrating. ASN are such a great charity. I've donated to them in the past. I think they do such important work and it's all on a shoestring. And then they go and spout this nonsense!

I do think it's worth people emailing them. Sometimes things like this come from one influential person (a funder, an important board member) and the charity might actually welcome emails complaining about it because it supports them in resisting whatever pressure they're coming under from whoever it might be.

I am writing to them at the moment. I wanted to use some examples of how accepting people are the opposite sex to that which they say they are hurts women in a variety of different ways and in a variety of different situations and wanted to include the example of the person called "Simon" who tweeted that he'd decided to speak "as a woman" at a Green Party conference despite presenting as a male and being male to all intents and purposes (they asked for more women to come forward as up to that point comments etc had been dominated by men). Does anyone know when that happened. The tweet itself is recorded on thenewbacklash.com but I don't see a date....

opposite sex to that which they are

sparechange

So they've lost you already as a funder .

I'd be interested to know what you find from the minutes of their trustees meetings if you don't mind reporting back.

Rhonda
It was a decision I have taken with a heavy heart, it really is.

But I think that if you are going to battle in an area such as reproductive rights and abortion, you a) need to be made of stern stuff, and b) need to pick your battles.
It is just beyond comprehension to me that they acquiesce like this. If they haven't got the guts to stand up to the trans community and tell them this issue isn't to do with them, then how the bloody hell do they propose to be able to play any meaningful part in the wider debate with darling Bernie and her band of religious nutters?

It's made me cross. They just had to stick to their knitting and avoid getting played by external groups with their own agendas, be that a fringe of trans-activists, or religious groups.

If they can't make the most basic stand for women's rights, they aren't the group I thought they were

Women on the Waves are getting the money that was previously going to ASN, as they don't seem to be ashamed about providing women with a service.

I haven't yet looked in detail at the ASN trustee minutes, but their last annual report quite clearly states 'women' in their Mission, Values and Vision, so this is a recent change of direction:
"Vision
A world where women have the information and means to access safe,
legal abortions wherever they live.
Mission
To provide information, financial assistance and accommodation to women who may be forced to travel to England to access a safe, legal abortion.
Values
• We believe that all women have the right to safe and legal abortions.
• We believe in providing practical support to enable women to
exercise this right.
• We are compassionate and respectful of women and their decisions."

www.abortionsupport.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/ASN_2015_Annual_Report.pdf

Yes I looked at their 2015 annual report too, and noticed that under "Goals for 2016" they say "We want to be able to help every person who contacts us". Now of course that could mean husbands, partners etc. but equally it could mean "pregnant persons". I guess it depends what previous annual reports say.

I've replied to them again, and said that I'm disappointed that a group that should be used to defending women's interests should be so easily swayed by conflicting priorities. I'm so disappointed by this. Of all the causes not to put women first.

I've nc for this - I hope. I'm the parent of a transboy (ie. ftm), and he is not part of any trans agenda, he is just massively vulnerable and subject to daily discrimination and abuse on a scale way beyond anything I've experienced as a woman. He is male. Its in his brain. He's not pretending, or if he is, he has been doing it without tripping up for years. You can't get surgery or hormone treatment likely until you are 18, so it is certainly not beyond possibility that transboys such as him could get pregnant before its put out of question. Especially because using female type contraception, even if he could get it, can be very problematic psychologically. Unwanted pregnancy is obviously awful for anyone, but for him/them it is also a potentially unbearable violation of his/their gender identity. I really think there is a big question over whether some transboys would actually survive a pregnancy. I know there are other issues involved here, but please, this organisation is trying to brand itself to be open to what are extremely vulnerable children in an excruciating situation. Does the politics of it have to come at the expense of those who may desperately need their service?

Does the politics of it have to come at the expense of those who may desperately need their service?

Including the women who desperately need their service?

Because there will be people who will use any rebranding that erases the acknowledgement that abortion is for females (a fact) to further erase that existing support and to prevent any progress that may be made in achieving legal abortion in Ireland and NI.

Verysadpants, your child is a gender-non-conforming person of female sex, so of course the abuse is worse than what you, a woman who probably performs femininity to some degree, get.
I daresay a young butch lesbian would get the same abuse. Perhaps more.

Does the politics of it have to come at the expense of those who may desperately need their service?

Are you aware that this portraying abortion as something that has nothing to do with a person's sex could mean that the anti-abortion laws cannot be abolished on the grounds of them being sexist, and will therefore stay in place?
Is that really what you want? Do you want millions of women to suffer so that about 1% of the population don't have to cope with a bit of discomfort caused by a symbol and some words?

Your child is underage. If an abortion was needed, then surely, you could access the charity and do all the paperwork, if your child really cannot cope with the cognitive dissonance of accessing a service that's for women.

However, if your child reports sex dysphoria (gender dysphoria, i.e. being unhappy with being assigned the gender role of subhuman fucktoilet, is a very healthy reaction every girl shows to some degree, so if you claim that your child is unhappy with the actual female body, not the male reactions to it, that's sex dysphoria in my book), then I think having the actual abortion would be much, much worse than seeing the symbol and/or word for "woman" somewhere on the paperwork.

I really think there is a big question over whether some transboys would actually survive a pregnancy.

Many girls and women do not survive pregnancy. That is why banning abortions is murder. Misogynist murder. And we have to name it as what it is.
Claiming that abortion is not a women's issue makes this hate against women invisible.

Abortion is an issue for people with fertile female anatomy, and like it or not that does include transboys/men (probably especially transboys as the hormone treatment will normally destroy your fertility). My child is unhappy with being in what he considers the wrong body, and actually 'unhappy' does not begin to describe it. Of course having an abortion would be worse than seeing the symbol for woman on the paperwork. But it might make the difference for transboys of accessing or not accessing the service. I mean they might anyway, but some of them may just assume its not for them at all, and then there is nothing.
I'm very ambivalent about abortion actually (I'm not sure if I can be a feminist and have doubts about it). But if you're going to have a service to help access it, it seems to me that transboys are in at least as much need and should not be made to feel unwelcome.
Surely from a legal point of view abortion laws would still be discriminatory against people born with female anatomy?

very I don't think anyone on here isn't sympathetic to your son's situation and how difficult it must be for him, however at no point is anyone suggesting trans boys/men should not access abortion. You say having it targeted at women only May put them off getting an abortion - the same works for women who now would feel comfortable the it's a women's issue, and turning it into something else may put them off also. Except the numbers will be greater.

And as a pp said the alternative is possibly anti-abortion laws to continue because it erases the one card we have left holding - the fact the laws may be abolished due to sexism. Making it a mans issue means we can no longer demand the banning on the grounds of sexism, leaving us holding zero cards. Do you really think that's a better option? There is currently some light at the end of the tunnel and you really want to put a stop to that so a tiny minority can feel included?

Abortion is an issue for people with fertile female anatomy

Exactly. Which is what the logo reflects. It is the symbol for female. Regardless of how your child identifies their sex is female.

I dont think you have quite understood the points being made regarding how changing the logo will put people (possibly your child) at serious risk of having no access to abortion. Are you really saying you would prefer that your child had no legal or other access to abortion as long as the symbol of one organisation didnt have any acknowledgement of the people it (used to ) provide help for? Is that really preferable?