Likened to a prostitute for being a wife?!

[Amaia10]

This is what a female "friend' said to me today - that the fact that I don't work and depend on my husband for income means that I am totally at his disposal and basically a kind of prostitute!

Ok she's only one person and obviously very proud of the fact she works in insurance and pays for an after school childminder, but I do find its other women who are the most judgemental about SAHMs, housewives, homemakers - don't even know what to call myself!

We have 3 children and I have been "at home" for 12 years or so since my eldest was born. I'll be quite honest that when we got married DH told me that he wanted me to be at home for our kids, rather than a childcare situation and because he needed to focus in his career. I had recently completed an MA, but was working as a dancer when I met DH (ballet, not lap dancing I should say)! Then I found myself in a situation where his income meant that I didn't need to work. I love being around for the kids and it just works for us. DH respects what I do, all the more so because he was packed off to some hideous boarding school at the age of 7 and followed his father and brothers into the military because that's just what they did in his family. So he had never really had a home life until he left the marines after we got married.

But does the fact that I was also happy to be around for the kids mean that I should have no self-respect or can't be considered a feminist because I don't earn my own money?

AHellOfABird we have those conversations too.

Hellofa - no sorry I was meaning within the workplace, not your lives in general (that was how I read your previous post). I couldn't possibly comment on your work/ life balance as I don't know you.

Also, I should say that I would not class DH as a not very good father. No he doesn't come home at 6pm every night, but who on earth does? His work/life balance has improved a lot as his businesses have become more secure, although there were times in the past when it seemed like he was at it 24/7 ( because he probably was in retrospect). As he works for himself he can be flexible if there's school plays, etc -I just have to remember to give him enough notice. He cycles into his office and it takes about 10 mins. He also has a office at home so will work from home if no meetings etc.and in these days he will pick up the kids from school if he can - although now we have 3 kids in a different schools😆. He does still go on ridiculous journeys like he did this week - LA for one day or something like that, but so do loads of people. He loves his kids and does his best with them as we all do.

I don't really 'get' why a sahp should feel obliged to return to work once the dc start school. School hours are really short, holidays are long and children still require a lot of time and input even when teenagers. Sah costs women in terms of money, pensions and career development and having done it for years I don't fancy being told by society I now have to start again career wise or do a little job that fits on with school hours or he considered a drain on dh. Bugger that! School days are my time to do as I please - my reward for doing all the night shifts

Also not understanding why it is wrong for a sahm to not feel obligated to help with child care for wohp. Unless wohp are going to top up my pension or share their wages I don't see I owe them support. Sah and woh come with different benefits and drawbacks - you make your choices.
Better, imo to focus on what happens post divorce. Society should recognise that the wohp (usually the man) has done well from having a sah partner and the court should insist on an equal division of the money. That would do more to increase societal recognition that 'women's work' has financial value.

That's really good to hear. Who gets the call from school if a child is ill?

This call comes to either partner and kicks off a series of furious hushed conversations where you hear your colleagues negotiating: 'but I have a meeting at 3pm...I did it last time etc"

But we are in civil service type roles - if we leave, no one dies, no deals are lost, no one fails exams.

A colleague's wife is a GP - if his kids need him he is the one who goes as she simply cannot leave her work.

When I was talking about support, IWill, upthread, personally, I just meant in terms of not being overly critical concerning other women's choices. I know giving practical help was also mentioned though, later in the thread. I will help people, where I can, when fair, but I do not feel obliged to give unpaid labour. SAHP does not equal other people's slave. We are not a free resource to be used by people who do paid work. You are right there are benefits and drawbacks. And I agree concerning divorce.

Actually, I do think that I should put myself out a bit for women who woh. Apart from anything else, I think it's good for my children to see people supporting and helping each other.

Bertrand it might sound like semantics, however I really do think there is a big difference between wanting to help and people thinking you are obliged to. The latter comes from some sort of entitlement felt by others over a SAHP's time. I have been on the receiving end of this and it is extremely alienating. I volunteered and wanted to volunteer but was often on the receiving end of snide comments concerning me being a SAHP. It made me feel exploited.

I will help out my friends and have done when work and childcare have clashed. Particularly single parent friends because I do have a support system that they don't have and yes, where possible people should be nice to each other.
But in generel dual income families are benefitting in ways that I don't, so I don't feel like I owe them anything in terms of extra help beyond what friends naturally do for each other.

"Bertrand it might sound like semantics, however I really do think there is a big difference between wanting to help and people thinking you are obliged to"

Oh, absolutely! That never happened to me- people were more likely to be pathetically overgrateful. Which, to be honest was just as annoying when all you've done is put 4 kids instead of 2 in your car and gone to the place you were going anyway!

The flip side is that there can very little insight into the stress and strain of being a working parent,

Chip oh, I understand it. It was why I chose to be a SAHP!

I understand it too. Even though my youngest is now 8 she has had a fair bit of time off school due to illness, has been in hospital recently. Don't know how I would have managed if I was working ft. Even uf dh had done 50% it still would have been hard.

I think people sometimes forget that when your kids start school they don't suddenly stop needing lots of your time. Schools don't help by constantly scheduling events during the school day which require parental involvement - that makes it hard for wohp who feel sad and guilty when they can't get time off and hard for sahp who might be trying to get back into work.
I didn't realise how much time my dc would be home due to illness and medical appts during the school day.

Echoing Bertrand here, I never had the feeling of a them and us working or not-working mother thing when my children were small. I found SAHM parents very kind and I tried to reciprocate (worked for myself, from home) so that they had time off childcare, too. Often the SAHMs were the ones running PTAs and doing other things in the community, and thus directly benefiting my family. They definitely needed childcare return favours.

Most of the SAHMs now work and where I feel that I did better out of the deal when the children were small, I now try hard to make up by offering, for example, to take their dogs out with mine for walks, or giving their teenagers lifts to town, researching stuff on the internet that they don't have time to do but I might, etc.

Perhaps on MN we tend to see the cases where it doesn't feel reciprocal. Generally I found people actually being quite anxious about taking more than they were giving. Also, and again, echoing others, and I am not being sexist here, I thought it was a very positive example to my children to see how female collaboration helps everyone.

"The only way to know, Dozer is to ask the women that SAH. "

Even that wouldn't reveal to what extent our choices are free. It's just assumed, for all kinds of reasons, that it will be the mother who changes or stops work.

Public sector jobs are less well paid than the private sector so it makes sense that fewer men in those jobs have SAHWs. my male colleagues with SAHWs do sometimes moan they're not paid enough to financially support a family alone.

Dozer, I think you've a higher chance of finding out the truth, concerning women's motivations regarding the choices they make, asking them about them, rather than not asking them. Suggesting these women are somehow so brainwashed by society, that they are incapable of explaining their own motivations truthfully, is a very controversial suggestion. Doing this allows for motivations just to be assigned to women's decisions by other people, which renders the women in question powerless to speak for themselves. I thought feminism was supposed to empower women?

I am a sahm, for 12 years so far - as our older children have SN going to work even on a part time basis is not feasible currently. I do volunteer work and that has the flexibility I need, while allowing me to do something more personally fulfilling. I plan to go back to wage slavery in the longer term. I also am improving my DIY and decorating skills as I do up our rather ramshackle house so I really do not feel under employed. Far from it!

DH and I play to our skills and this has resulted in an outwardly traditional set up - but there is equality in our status within our marriage roles and I really don't feel my life choices deny me status as a feminist.

It is easy to make assumptions and judge other people - but it generally says more about your own insecurities than the other persons inadequacies.

"But does the fact that I was also happy to be around for the kids mean that I should have no self-respect or can't be considered a feminist because I don't earn my own money?

Amaia of course you can be a feminist.

Of course being a stay at home mum is better than being a prostitute.

Prostitution isn't 'sex work' it is prostitution. IMHOlogosjournal.com/2014/watson/

The notion that being a SAMH is prostitution is ridiculous. Saying that minimises the huge harm caused by prostitution.

Of course you can be a SAHM and a feminist. Only Xenia would say otherwise and she was bonkers.

And of course it's not like being a prostitute. You have an equal relationship and an emotional one. It's more than a simple exchange of services.

Of course there should continue to be research into why women SAH and go PT and why men don't, including asking people directly, and analysis of economics etc.

I don't support the current situation in my specific area of the UK though because it results in men having even more money and power and many talented women not being economically active.

The thing is Dozer, in order to fully respect these 'talented' economically 'inactive' women, it has to be considered whether and why they genuinely value SAH. Undergoing unpaid work, in looking after the family for example, should not be considered as lower in value than being 'economically active'. The fact that this seems to be such a concern suggests unpaid work is undervalued.

In fact, with total freedom of choice, I have preferred only having to negotiate with my husband and family over decisions made, rather than work colleagues. I feel I have much more automony, day to day, than when I was working.

So in your opinion we don't need to worry about the skewed representation of men and women in both paid (at various levels of pay/economic or other influence) and unpaid work?

Agree that parenting, caring roles and domestic work are not sufficiently appreciated. With the exception of breastfeeding, though, I just don't accept that women are inherently much better suited than men to do this type of work. Or that men are better at stuff that's paid and lauded.