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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Likened to a prostitute for being a wife?!

130 replies

Amaia10 · 04/06/2016 15:28

This is what a female "friend' said to me today - that the fact that I don't work and depend on my husband for income means that I am totally at his disposal and basically a kind of prostitute!

Ok she's only one person and obviously very proud of the fact she works in insurance and pays for an after school childminder, but I do find its other women who are the most judgemental about SAHMs, housewives, homemakers - don't even know what to call myself!

We have 3 children and I have been "at home" for 12 years or so since my eldest was born. I'll be quite honest that when we got married DH told me that he wanted me to be at home for our kids, rather than a childcare situation and because he needed to focus in his career. I had recently completed an MA, but was working as a dancer when I met DH (ballet, not lap dancing I should say)! Then I found myself in a situation where his income meant that I didn't need to work. I love being around for the kids and it just works for us. DH respects what I do, all the more so because he was packed off to some hideous boarding school at the age of 7 and followed his father and brothers into the military because that's just what they did in his family. So he had never really had a home life until he left the marines after we got married.

But does the fact that I was also happy to be around for the kids mean that I should have no self-respect or can't be considered a feminist because I don't earn my own money?

OP posts:
ChipStix · 04/06/2016 20:45

And Christ almighty of course bring a SAHM is better than being a prostitute. Hmm

You don't have to have sex with random strangers st great physical ad emotional busy for a start.

ChipStix · 04/06/2016 20:48

Busy? Cost I mean..

Original poster
Amaia10 · 04/06/2016 21:07

Whathe - do we need to have this conversation? I'm really not making any judgements about prostitutes - or anyone else. Someone had implied I am living off DH where I would see my marriage as a partnership.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 04/06/2016 21:12

"Reading with interest ...I would of identified with being a feminist as a young woman....as a SAHM,I assumed I couldn't be one...really identify with the ops post.."

Of course you can! Happy to say more if you like........

Loulou2kent · 04/06/2016 21:16

I think a lot of people just get a bit jealous & say stupid things. I know I'd much rather stay at home & just let DP work, but unfortunately it's not possible & I do get jealous. But I'd never say anything out loud. Just desperately think of ways we could become millionaires & dream of that lifestyle Smile. I'd love to just give my family 100% of my time. There's also the flip side of some mothers who would desperately love to work but the figures just don't add up. It takes all sorts to make the world....I wouldn't give it a second thought. You & your family are what matter. Not what a so called friend says....

RiverTam · 04/06/2016 21:21

I am a SAHM and would call myself a borderline radical feminist. But I am fully aware that not all my decisions or choices are feminist ones. I don't think being told by your DH to be a SAHM in order to satisfy what kind of childhood he wants his children to have but isn't prepared to provide himself is feminist, but of course the OP can agree to it if she's happy with that. But it doesn't sound to me like an equal partnership, and that is what feminism is about at the very least. But I don't think you are living off your DH in any kind of 'kept woman' kind of way!

Petal40 · 04/06/2016 21:24

Bertrand Russell ...ok..yes..thanks.that would be helpful

Mrsfrumble · 04/06/2016 21:31

I heard this opinion at least twice before, from writers who declared themselves feminists. I think I've heard it on here too.

I'm currently a SAHM, as much through circumstance as choice, and I'll admit I've been more reluctant to identify myself as a feminist because I feel excluded by attitudes like this. This thread has made me feel better!

whattheseithakasmean · 04/06/2016 21:35

Many sex workers keep all the money they earn (not all are pimped, you know), the OP admits she has no control or understanding of het husbands finances. Remind me again why a SAHM can be a feminist and a sex worker can't?

almondpudding · 04/06/2016 21:38

The notion that a SAHM is similar to a prostitute presumably means that your acquaintance thinks the primary purpose you have in being at home is to have sex with your husband.

Which is bizarre.

Mrsfrumble · 04/06/2016 21:41

Where has anyone said that sex workers can't be feminists?.

dearlybeloved · 04/06/2016 21:43

It is funny that I have only had these sorts of comments from women. I told a friend once that I was a SAHM and she said but how do you support yourself? When I explained we were a partnership etc she still thought this was odd. And the number of times women have asked if I work to get the 'lady of leisure' line hurled at me. I couldn't care less now but when I was a young mum it did hurt.

I too have had the prostitute label said to me but not in so many words.

It is sad that it is women throwing the insults.

Original poster
Amaia10 · 04/06/2016 22:03

Thankyou Symphony, ChipStix and Loukou - this is my first time posting here and I really appreciate your comments. And everyone else!
Tam in some ways you're not wrong about DH. As a young child he missed his mother a lot because half the time she never was able to take him home for the holidays (too busy following her DH around overseas) so him and his two brothers where farmed out to various guardians. He wasn't too bothered about not seeing his father because he never really had a relationship with him in the first place. The GPs are off the scale nutters, but that's another thread..
Everyone is a product of their upbringing to some extent - I know I am. If you met DH's father (I wouldn't recommend it) you would think DH was an evolutionary miracle!

OP posts:
AHellOfABird · 04/06/2016 22:06

Xenia used to say that sort of thing, mrsfrumble, but she's far outnumbered by posters who think she's very wrong.

Of course SAHMs can be feminists.

TJEckleburg · 04/06/2016 22:14

I most definitely didn't give up my radical feminism when I became a SAHM. And both my children are being brought up as feminists. The fact my husband works, and I don't have to even though both children are now at secondary simply gives me more time to spend on politics and fighting feminist causes.

Feminism is not about women taking on traditional male roles. It's about women and men being equal. It's about me, as a woman, being able to choose what I want to do with my life. And what I've wanted to do with my life for the last 13 years is look after my children full-time, and support my spouses very lucrative career. I would like it if in the future, that was an option that was more conceivable for male partners as well, and I have made sure that I stressed to both of my children that their future roles in life should be determined by their circumstances not their genitalia.

AgingJuvenileBinkyHuckaback · 04/06/2016 22:16

It's a traditional (outdated) feminist trope to compare heterosexual marriage to prostitution. But actually that ignores the fact that married women in the UK do have some financial protection if they stop wanting to have sex with their husband and their marriage therefore comes to an end. The women who really may be faced with the choice between unwanted sexual activity and penury/financial disadvantage are the unmarried ones. Clearly in most cases they have the choice of alternative employment or state support, but they may not pay as well.

Dozer · 04/06/2016 22:16

Your friend was very rude.

But am not at all impressed with your H telling you what he expected of you and that he "needed" (in addition to becoming a parent) to progress his career in the way those who are not parents can do. What if you hadn't wanted to SAH or had been depressed as a SAHM, or at any stage decide it no longer works for you?

Not great that he's a "workaholic" (implies he's not a great father).

As the PP says you need full access to financial info. men sometimes hide money in case of or after divorce.

I do get quite cross with SAHMs I know when they cheerlead for their H's career or achievements, when they are enabling them and are just as talented. It bothers me a lot that it's almost never men who SAH. That other working parents like DH and I can't compete with men (and it is almost always men) with SAHWs at work. It makes me sad that we can't support our DCs' education and interests as well as our SAHM friends.

MistressMerryWeather · 04/06/2016 22:31

Honestly? I always assume people who say crap like this are trying their best to be seen as controversial.

I imagine a very small percentage of feminists actually believe this and those who do are struggling with their own issues.

I wouldn't stand to be insulted like that by anyone let alone a friend. That's not feminism, that's being an asshole.

Mrsfrumble · 04/06/2016 22:42

...That other working parents like DH and I can't compete with men (and it is almost always men) with SAHWs at work.

Is this the fault of the SAHWs though? Or a messed up working culture that encourages and venerates insanely long hours at the expense of a work / life balance?

AHellOfABird · 04/06/2016 23:14

I don't think it's the fault of the SAHWs mrsfrumble. But it's certainly true for me that most people in my profession are men with SAHWs or wives who work in school hours. Which does limit the amount I can compete with them. I like having equal work and home responsibilities with DH though.

Dozer · 04/06/2016 23:17

No, it's not the fault of the SAHWs, I can't blame people for following a model that has many advantages, especially when the men working all the hours, doing all the travel and so on are highly paid.

But it's nonetheless annoying that it seems so hard to share childcare and still do OK at work. and when it's much less often the women having the career success.

Dozer · 04/06/2016 23:21

Men reaching senior, highly paid roles should theoretically be well placed (relative to most of us) to change working culture, but seem to just continue to do the traditional thing.

ChipStix · 04/06/2016 23:23

There are so many permutations of how families manage work and finances and childcare.
DP and I earn an average wage each and both work ft - although I am on compressed hours so am on the road at 6.30am 4 days a week. This works for us but there's no way out family could run if one of us decided to work longer than 35-37 hrs a week.

For others, allowing one person to make strides in their career can also be a great option for the family - and it doesn't always have to be the male partner that does this.

Dozer · 04/06/2016 23:25

But it almost always IS the male partner!

Where I live there are almost 50% SAHMs.

In London it's closer to 60% which researchers suggest could be due to high childcare costs.

So a SAHM remains the model for many.

CherryPicking · 04/06/2016 23:30

It's all work. Paid or unpaid, childcare, architecture, sex work, housework, teaching.