if you'll dip yr wick anywhere why the pressure on women's appearance?

[buckingfrolicks]

This occurred to me as something odd and I wonder what you think

Bear with me there are some assumptions coming.

A. The male human is by and large evolutionarily prepared to have sex with women of any shape and size

B. Men have generally speaking created most of the social messages about what women are/should be

C. Given a), how come we don't have a culture where women are basically valued for being female, how come we don't have a culture where men say " phwoar she's gorgeous" about every/any woman? Why did a woman's appearance become such a massive deal, given that biologically men are indiscriminate in who they mate with?

I can see that male humans are attracted to Youth ie best bet for procreation of genes. Hence the emphasis on Youth signals like long hair and a waist. But the rest? I don't get it

Have you ever seen a group of people comparing who has got the latest/best phone, arguing maybe over what features are most desirable or most naff? When all they want really is ability to send/receive calls and texts, store a contacts list, access data and gave a camera. And you can do that with nearly any phone.

But still doesn't take away the pressure to have a cool phone.

It's more acute for women to be desirable in societies where men a) judge each other for their possessions and b) still tends to see women as chattels.

Yes I was discussing with DD and we wondered if it was linked to that sense of "owning" the best, but your phone example is really spot on.

But then I know many men who are quite picky and won't sleep with anyone .
and woman the other way round ! In fact one of the woman has said she prefairs a very specific type but as she hasn't been in a position to have him others will do in the mean time ?

I'm currently reading Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth and she argues that it is related to power rather than sex. An interesting read

My theory is that... actually the men do the choosing. Really. Peacocks have to attract a mate, and female humans are competing for the best males.

The patriarchy wants to control and punish women.
We are controlled into particular patterns of behaviour, thought, etc., even into accepting that they are normal - a woman might say 'boys will be boys' and 'I don't look like a porn star so not all women are controlled into it' but she won't actively fight against it. So even women who think they're not controlled into certain patterns normalise the existence of them.
We are punished for speaking or acting out.

But men are biologically driven to seek/win the most fertile mate - physiologically, that means young, slender but broad-hipped and buxom, glossy hair etc in the same way that we would check for a healthy horse or rabbit. Those qualities of youth and fertility are what we culturally associate with attractiveness.

Yeah, I think it's about having the best thing as well as the most likely to procreate. If you're going to go back to primeval instincts, it's about being alpha male isn't it?

Societal constructs (marriage, partnerships, monogamy etc) make it awkward for men to have sex with any and every female, so they might as well pick one they'll be happy with for longer than one night.

Obviously some are only in it for one night which is when pickiness goes down the drain, often.

For longer term prospects, any young have a better chance of surviving if the female is supported by the male to a degree, otherwise she would find it hard to survive and raise young successfully at the same time.

So perhaps men have evolved to pick the best of the bunch in their pool for procreation purposes. If not actively procreating, any port in a storm and all that...

Because (generally speaking) although a man could probably have sex with pretty much any woman if they had to, they want to have the "best" and make us compete to prove that we are the ones that they should pick.

Women are the peacocks, pushed to have the gaudiest tail to attract the mate, whilst men are the peahens who don't have to make the effort but know that they will still get laid if they wish.

and bucking ..."given that biologically men are indiscriminate in who they mate with?"

I think there are levels of evolution between men even in today's society.

I would hazard a guess (based on absolutely no scientific research) that men who are indiscriminate in who they mate with are more towards either the bottom of society or the top. The bottom dwellers (pardon the pun) because they don't care about much except dicking around for pleasure and don't care about the consequences, and the top because they can afford to make the problem go away or there are levels of protection (lawyers, bodyguards, security, PAs etc) between them and those they don't want to deal with. So they don't personally have to get their hands dirty with consequences.

The ones in the middle (majority) are more careful as they don't have the insouciance of the bottom dwellers or the financial and other protection as the top. They may also find themselves lower on the desirability ladder for available females if they leave too much mess behind them, so they have to be more choosy in what they do.