Men as protectors

[SoftDriftedSnow]

Is it ever really true, except in their own minds?

A new study shows that marriage (or rather, the expectations of marriage) is detrimental to women. www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/04/22/wives-become-less-stressed-after-their-husbands-die-study-finds/

When you add in the rates of violence against women by men, why does this myth of men being protectors prevail?

And if it doesn't (not convinced) why is it still perceived by a significant proportion of people that women without a man are lacking? Maybe that's simply still function of perceived worth being determined by the man you get?

Rambling, but thinking. (and I am pretty much convinced the answer is "patriarchy", to nail my colours to the mast. And, yes, I know that many of you don't know men who think like that).

I give up.

IrishDad You are so right. Men protect women. Especially firemen. In fact because firemen protect women therefore it is true that men protect women in general. All those violence by men against women and girls - exceptions. You know. Exceptions.

Not all men are like that, you know, feminists.

Happy?

Never...

Does that mean that we all have to marry firefighters? I can see that causing a few problems, not least of which would be my DH who would have things to say about it all.Or shall we merely have firefighters only male ones obvs standing outside our houses to ensure they are available to do the wrong kind of rescuing as per Irishdad's firefighter fantasties?

Yes Palmer. To be protected you have to marry a fireman. Not a firefighter - they might be women and that would be useless. A fireman.

HTH.

(OK I'm sniggering now because the "protection" thing is reminding me how sanitary pads "protect" you and make you feel safe walking down a dark alley in the middle of Crime City.)

Perhaps sanitary pads are also male, and we should marry them as well?

How terribly confusing!

Or condoms? Condoms protect people from STIs and women from pregnancy, are they protecty enough?

They probably rescue. Who knows. Perhaps IrishDad can come back to tell us whether sanitary pads protect or rescue, and whether condoms protect or rescue.

In any case it's probably best not to overthink, don't you think? It will interfere with your sandwich-making ability.

No hidden meaning. I'm not given to irony or humour either (on this site)

Wtf?

The fact that firefighters (who can be either male or female) exist = men are protectors.

Really?

Sure, some women couldn't be firefighters as they wouldn't pass the tests, but neither could a weaker man, or an older man, or a physically disabled man etc...

Btw, I'm pretty confident I could pass those tests, and I am definitely female.

Not that I wouldn't be extremely grateful to the firefighter who rescued me, but I'd rather be protected from fire to a greater degree, so that there was no fire in the first place. Fire retardant coatings etc do this. And fire doors. Can men cover my sofa to protect it from bursting into flames, or swell up to contain a fire?

Pop these fellas on your sofa, GirlSailor, and feel all safe and patronised:
m.aliexpress.com/item/32365427312.html?productId=32365427312&productSubject=7-styles-Super-Hero-America-Captain-Iron-Man-Sofa-Cushion-Covers-Hero-Pillows-Covers-Pillow-Case&tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Hahahaha at firefighters carrying people down 10 flights of stairs. And hahahaha on firefighters being protectors. Almondpudding has nailed it. Firefighters don't break their back doing that.

What do men do when work is too heavy/tiring/awkward/dangerous for them, I wonder? Hmmmm. Let's think about that. Do they use tools? Or other methods perhaps? So let's think again what would women do faced with a similar situations? Hmmmm hard one. Ooh ooh I know tools or other methods? Wild guess I know

For the record a common way firefighters rescue people out of burning buildings is to put them on a chair and carry them out between two of them. And firefighters don't just rescue people from burning buildings. In fact that is a very small and rare part of the job. Thankfully. They are far more likely to be wielding bolt cutters and angle grinders and rescuing people from cars wrapped round trees .

"...wielding bolt cutters and angle grinders" OMG a woman would never be able to do that!

scallops Irishdad doesn't think much of the ladies, probably not worth wasting words on.

I just remembered I have been trained to get people downstairs on the evacuation chairs. I even got a certificate for it. (I'm based on the ground floor, so don't expect to be the first in line to be in charge of getting people downstairs.)

NeverEverAnythingEver
"I give up.

IrishDadYou are"so"right. Men protect women. Especially firemen. In fact because firemen protect women therefore it is true that men protect women in general. All those violence by men against women and girls - exceptions. You know. Exceptions.

Not all men are like that, you know, feminists.

Happy?"

Jesus, how many strawmen (sorry, "strawpeople"), can you fit into one post?

I never said men protect women in general.

And I never used the example of male firefighters as some kind of counterweight to the scourge of male violence against women and girls (or boys, for that matter, you left them out).

So, why are you putting forward arguments I never made?

I stand by my argument; the thread is rubbishing the notion of men as protectors in society. Fair enough. I'm just putting forward the example of (mostly) male firefighters risking their lives every day to protect (and yes, rescue!) people from fires.

Come to think of it, do (mostly) male firefighters not "protect" towns and cities from forest fires in places like Australia and California? I mean, they're not "rescuing" the towns, they're "protecting" them, right?

Seeing that the exact dictionary definitions are so important and all.

Oh, read your own posts, you GF.

Firefighters are mostly male, just as nursery workers are mostly female. For both professions, provided a person meets the job requirements, sex is irrelevant.

And nursery workers are protecting their charges every day, of course, from falling over, when out for a class walk etc.

I think you see that you were wrong on your spurious "carrying people" point and, rather than acknowledge that, you've pootled off on another irrelevant tangent.

Good show.

Oh I know Palmer. I just fancied patronisingly explaining to someone how wrong they are on a topic. It seems to be de rigeur at the moment on FWR so I thought I'd join the party.

I may also know a thing or two about firefighters .

Thread title: Men as protectors

Opening line of thread: "Is it ever really true, except in their own minds?"

Answer: Yes, sometimes it is true, as in the example I've just given of male firefighters protecting towns from forest fires. Why is that so difficult to acknowledge? You're not going to spontaneously combust (seeing as we're on the subject of fire et al).

Try this Irish:

Read the rest of the OP.

Take some time to allow the actual idea behind the discussion sink into your brain, ask someone to help should this cause you difficulty.

Come back and apologise.

Or even better, go away and tell women what to think elsewhere on the forum.

Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge you were wrong? WILL you spontaneously combust, seeing as you have a bit of a thing about male firefighters?

You do it so well scallops, I am a great admirer of your work

I think what you fail to acknowledge in your 'truth', Irish is that the men working as firefighters aren't doing so because of their status as male. It isn't a function of their penis, doing the rescues etc. Women do them too. So it's true to say 'men protect people as firefighters' if you actually mean people protect people as firefighters, but are using men to mean people. Which would make you a bit of a sexist twat, which I'm sure you aren't. It isn't masculinity which is causing people to rescue other people in your example, it's firefighting, which you can undertake as a man or woman.

But the OP didn't write, do people ever protect each other? Are people supposed to be protective of one another? She was asking about whether specifically men in their status as men are particularly protective. Whether protectiveness is a male quality. Your example that some men do participate in protective acts does not answer this question.

WRT the whole, oh but women couldn't carry people down the stairs of a burning building. This is another part of the tedious underestimation of female strength. The main part of your body that you would use to support carrying another person would be your skeleton. Women's skeletons are very hard, skeletons in general are. I am 5'1 and carried (in a fireman's lift, fittingly enough) my drunk then boyfriend up the stairs to bed because our landlord was coming round and I thought it proper to tidy up. He was 6'1. It wasn't that hard, though I did twat him on the head by turning round in a doorway and admittedly the house was not on fire. The hardest bit was standing up once he was in place. It took about 3 seconds to stand which I will concede feels like a long time when you have to do a deep squat with a drunk fool on your back.

People's bodies are strong. If you don't know how to inhabit that strength (maybe because a lifetime of YOU ARE SO DELICATE WITH YOUR LADYBRAIN type messages in discussions like this WOMEN STAIRS AND HEAVY THINGS THIS IS MADNESS) then you appear to yourself and to others like you aren't strong. But tasks like carrying heavy shit are a function of good organisation of a basically strong resource. People who can carry their own weight on their own legs can usually carry at least double that, if it is distributed across their skeleton properly. When I say people, I mean women and men.

Well said, outsself. I'm also thinking of women walking for miles with heavy water containers on their heads (and, quite possibly, babies/toddlers strapped to their backs).

I've also yet to see a forest fire being tackled by carrying people downstairs away from it. Though perhaps the helicopters dumping water on the fires I've seen were Piloted By Penis (TM)...