Brighton primary school admissions - gender identity

[SisterMoonshine]

I just caught the end of something on the radio about parents receiving letters this week to say which school their child has a place at. And that they should put which gender their child identifies with.
Big question!
I think I'd have to give an essay for an answer if this was our area. As far as DD is concerned, at 3, she is simply DD.

when I read this I felt the same as many others, I can't imagine how mixed up being asked what my 'gender' was at the age of 4 could have made me. However sometimes I do wonder that this is the future and perhaps we are going to get a new generation growing up who all have some degree of gender disorder, in much the same way as the current generation seem to have mobile phone attention span disorders. They're still alive despite their obvious idiosyncrasies. Maybe this is just the way things are going to go

I'm relieved there's a backlash to this ludicrous form of child abuse, sexism (mostly misogynist), regressive, present day trendy Trans Craze.

Claudia it really won't go this way once people realise boys can actually wear pink, and if you are a male who is slow at running it's cheating to take female hormones for a couple of years just so you can compete in the women's team.

Women had to rise up in the past. We will have to rise up again.

maybe Ophelia but the new generation will make their own minds up about gender, it's no good us oldies nagging them one way or another

Great poem hairy, thank you

Nagging oldies

Well... I hope to raise my children with wisdom, compassion and insight, and I'm certain that this whole trendy craze will reach a plateau. There is such obvious conflict RE women's rights VS Trans...

but who call themselves "The American College of Pediatricians" in order to deliberately confuse themselves with the American Academy of Paediatrics which advocates for a supportive approach to children who struggle with gender dysphoria, an internationally recognised condition.

They are also pro-corporal punishment of children and have a handy little guide on their website called "Guidelines for Disciplinary Spanking."

And this is also from their website : " . . .there is sound evidence that children exposed to the homosexual lifestyle may be at increased risk for emotional, mental, and even physical harm."

They have a anti-children, anti-woman agenda and are populated by people with a fundamentalist, religious right orientation.

sunburnt and seneca - so what? Disagreeing with someone about one issue doesn't mean you can't agree with them about another.

An organization that supports inflicting physical pain on children and gives guidance on how to do it, among a host of other misogynistic and homophobic positions, really does not have credibility on anything involving the welfare of children, in my opinion.

Thankfully we don't live in America. And thankfully we have the well known pro-female Sun Newspaper to enlighten us.

PrettyBrightFireflies It doesn't really matter whether you agree or disagree because it's not something that revolves around an opinion: it's an established fact that gender dysphoria is a recognised condition and children as young as four and five can and do present with it. This is the precise age in fact when many children do begin to appear distressed. It is entirely different to "gender non conformity" which as most tend to agree is a normal, healthy exploration of self. More children can and should explore and expand the givens and the boundaries of the gendered culture we have inherited.
Children who develop an acute distress about the biological sex they were born into, and I stress the word acute, a distress that leads to withdrawal, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, self harm, suicidal ideation and attempt, substance abuse, dropping out of education...that goes way, way beyond a boy who wants to wear pink and a girl who likes to wear her hair short and climb trees with her brothers.
Gender identity is separate and distinct from sexual orientation and even biological sex. Look it up.
Yes, these children exist in a minority and this tiny section of an application form for schools is designed to meet their need and it is only the ignorant privilege of a majority that ever denies comfort and recognition to a minority. It is vital that children most likely to be excluded from a safe, happy education are catered for. The American Academy of Paediatrics accepts that and its stated policy is that a failure to support leads to more and more problems. How can a child learn if they can't function on a basic level?
This is not a fashion. It's nothing to do with "bonkers parenting" or "right on" Brighton. It's not anti-feminist or sexist? It's got nothing to do with misogyny or the patriarchy. It's got nothing to do with not letting them grow up gay either?
These kids come from all walks of life and all social backgrounds. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist and walk among you. Watch out, you might spot some of their parents: they're the ones who are absolutely petrified about all the hate and the ignorance and the denial and the wilful prejudice that persists in an educated, progressive society like ours. They live in pure fear that their children are going to get their heads kicked in at school. The statistics around bullying for kids on the lgbt spectrum are horrific.
Some parents have had child protection services called on them when there is no case to answer because some adults can't get their heads around the fact that kids know who they are. Yes, even kids as young as four and five. One family in the UK were taken to court by CAMHS after the family turned to them for help. The judge threw the case out of court but not before the family had been through hell.
And then the tabloids step in and it all makes things worse for these families. Think on that. Read up a little on what it's really like for a mother to have to cut her ten year old child, who said he felt like a girl, down from a noose because nobody got it. It's alright when it's not happening to you isn't it?

"Why do school need to know? Do they treat boys and girls differently? Why on earth else does it matter?" Well this is the nub really.

I so agree with Seneca though. The American College of Pediatricians have very different and bigoted motives. They certainly wouldn't defend women's rights. They are not our allies in this or any other matter.

"Gender identity is separate and distinct from sexual orientation and even biological sex." Yes. That is what we are arguing. Gender is also a social construct. It doesn't exist except in society's head.

I agree that what these minority of children are feeling is more acute than what is being described here. And of course they should be offered support. Surely no-one is denying that. No-one wants 10 yr olds to kill themselves. But it is still a valid question to ask that if we removed 'gender identities' and gender in general, would these children be happier and more settled just being what and who they want to be?

At that age my sister would definitely have said boy. What would they have done?

I think that the American College of Pediatricians link might simply be a case of even a stopped clock being right twice a day.

The first time you use a pronoun you are treating girls and boys differently.
We are all born with a gender identity but most of us never have to think about this stuff for very long because most of us were born with a gender identity congruent or matching our biological sex.
As women, we have all had to battle the patriarchy and the constructed boundaries around gender expression that we have inherited in our cultures.

But if someone repeatedly says "he" and "him" to me I take offence. Why? Because I know I'm a woman. How do I know? Because I was born with a vagina and ovaries? Because I have breasts? Because I've been told my whole life since I was born that I'm female? Or is it because I know I'm a woman. How do I know? Because I feel like a woman? Because I know I'm not a man?
I hate pink, hated wearing skirts and dress when I was a kid and as soon as I was allowed to, I cut my hair short. But I still knew I was a girl. I know I'm a woman.
And if someone tells me I look like a man, it stings. I get a jarring feeling. I take offence. I feel insulted.
Try some empathy. Thats a scratch on the tip of the iceberg of what gender dysphoria feels like. Imagine walking around every day with that feeling as a kid in school and the fear of what might happen to you if you tell someone...

No one would have gender disphoria if gender didnt exist. Gender was made up in the first place. It can't be too hard to challenge.

We are all born with a gender identity

Evidence for this please? I strongly disagree

What sex are you? = not a hard question

Do you preper pink or blue forever for the rest of your life? = pretty upsetting and difficult question.

*prefer

scallopsrgreat Nice concept in an imaginary far away land but how do we "remove gender"? In real life gender matters because it exists.
If gender didn't matter then neither would sexual orientation?
Gender is not just a "social construct". People caught on to that years ago. That was evident after the failure of social experiment gender expert John Money's inflicted in the famous John/ Joan case.

scallopsrgreat Nice concept in an imaginary far away land but how do we "remove gender"? In real life gender matters because it exists.
If gender didn't matter then neither would sexual orientation?
Gender is not just a "social construct". People caught on to that years ago. That was evident after the failure of social experiment gender expert John Money's inflicted in the famous John/ Joan case.

No one is born with a gender identity because gender is nothing more than a social construct. There is absolutely nothing inherent or necessary about gender.

No one is denying that gender dysphoria is a real condition that causes considerable trauma to the children affected and their families. No one wants any of these children to suffer.

What people are saying is that this is not actually going to help them. It may actually do the children it's supposedly trying to help harm. And even if it could help a very small number of children, it could only do so by causing harm to many, many more children. That's not proportionate or reasonable.

These kind of attempts to medicalise gender are dangerous and extremely problematic for everyone.

Gender only exists because we continue to reify it through social practices.