Brighton primary school admissions - gender identity

[SisterMoonshine]

I just caught the end of something on the radio about parents receiving letters this week to say which school their child has a place at. And that they should put which gender their child identifies with.
Big question!
I think I'd have to give an essay for an answer if this was our area. As far as DD is concerned, at 3, she is simply DD.

So many children think they're swans, or ponies, or cats at that age.

WTF Brighton, you poltroons

I like that article from the American College of Pediatricians:
"The American College of Pediatricians urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex. Facts – not ideology – determine reality."
And imposing this onto the next generation at just 3 and 4 years old is harmful to society's progression.

I thought the speaker from (very windy) Brighton was excellent

That was our own StephanieDA.

I wrote another poem because of this Brighton and Hove thing, but a poster suggested it was rather too lengthy (it was) and not likely to be taken seriously (quite so) so I left it to languish in chat and let the thread die. Fair point, well made.

And then I read Victoria Wood had died . She had such a talent for irreverent poetry. And she wrote from a woman's perspective, and she cared about women's issues. She was a feminist, and I have no idea whether she considered herself a radical one but it was obvious that she cared.

"The first day I met my producer, she said, “I’m a radical feminist lesbian.” I thought what would the Queen Mum do? So I just smiled and said, “We shall have fog by tea-time.”
– Victoria Wood

I don't care if my attempts at poetry are silly and pointless, and I'm aware my efforts are paltry, compared to her comic genius, but it doesn't matter. She had her way of doing her bit for women. This is my way of doing my bit. So I'm dedicating this one to the inimitable Victoria Wood and her unforgettable talent. This one's for you, Victoria. You're going to be sadly missed.

Sugar and spice and everything nice
That’s what little girls are made of
Slugs and snails and puppy dogs’ tails
That’s what little boys are made of

How retro! How daft!
How liberals laughed!
The way that society thought then.
As if we’d support
Such retrograde thought
Distinguishing women and men

We’ve come a long way
I’m delighted to say
We’re much more enlightened these days
So if you’re confused
And would be disabused
Allow me to please paraphrase

What are little girls made of?
What are little girls made of?
Why, feelings, and pink
and feminine think
That’s what little girls are made of

And oh, by the way
I’d just like to say that
The stuff that will make you a girl
This scientist said
It’s all in the head
And a little bit how well you twirl

What are little boys made of?
What are little boys made of?
Why, football and minions
And manly opinions
That’s what little boys are made of

So boys must like this
And girls are like that
So please keep that straight in your head
Don’t meet the objective?
Then you are defective
You’d better change gender instead

But in case you have heard
That this stance is absurd
A recycled stereotype
Well, please do ignore
Such a terrible bore
They’ve not yet signed up to the hype

For everyone knows
That Brighton and Hove
Say 4 year olds can choose a gender
Are you blue, are you pink
Do you dance, can you think
The critical questions to ponder

But to those who suggest
This is not a good test
All it shows is personalities
That this isn’t progressive
It’s even aggressive
And children should like what they please

Some people have said
Gender’s not in your head
It’s a limiting way of prescribing
The roles we must play
And the things we must say
And it’s not a great way of describing

Do you think ‘like a girl’?
Do you think ‘like a boy’?
Can we please just let children exist
Please take my suggestion
And please start to question
If “think like a girl” is sexist?

If you want true equality
Reject this mentality
View all gender labels with scepticism
It’s all been re-branded
But we’ve caught it redhanded
‘Gender’: ‘The recycled sexism’

That statement by The American College of Pediatricians is exactly what needs to be said. And yet, if any of us said half of those things, we would be deleted for being 'inflammatory'.

Such as:

The American College of Pediatricians urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex.

People who identify as “feeling like the opposite sex” or “somewhere in between” do not comprise a third sex. They remain biological men or biological women.

A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking. When an otherwise healthy biological boy believes he is a girl, or an otherwise healthy biological girl believes she is a boy, an objective psychological problem exists that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such.

According to the DSM-V, as many as 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.

Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse.

Endorsing gender discordance as normal via public education and legal policies will confuse children and parents, leading more children to present to “gender clinics” where they will be given puberty-blocking drugs. This, in turn, virtually ensures that they will “choose” a lifetime of carcinogenic and otherwise toxic cross-sex hormones, and likely consider unnecessary surgical mutilation of their healthy body parts as young adults.

Hairy that was brilliant and your story about Victoria Wood has brought a tear to my eye.

Chemically castrating children? What could possibly go wrong?

Eugenics

Unfortunately the American College of Pediatricians is very right-wing and are, for example, anti-choice. Which is disappointing as they are pretty spot on with regards to this issue.

Another excellent poem, Hairy. A fitting tribute to VW.

Another round of applause for Hairy

Great poem Hairy .

What I'll happen if these children change their mind? Is that allowed? Would the school cope? Would the world stop? Will society as we know it break down?

Talk about constricting children. The school is doing a really good job of this.

I missed the poem in chat. Glad you put it here - it's great.

Hairy your poems are brilliant

I'd imagine they'd be shuffled into another box, this time labelled 'gender fluid' if they changed their minds. Or there'd be talk of them 'transitioning' again.

When you could avoid all this by just not asking about gender at all. It should be of no relevance to the provision of primary education and we should be seeking to eliminate its current (very problematic) effects.

Hairy

hairy that is a brilliant poem , and I bet VW would have loved it too xx

love the poem, Hairy.

Also, am encouraged to see this thread.

It's a good thing that there is help for people who are trans. I am sure that is a genuine disorder for some people (and, a convenient one for people looking at a sentence in a male prison who fancy having easier digs). But, I am not sure that surgery is the answer - it does not seem to objectively do much for these people's psychological distress. I assume there are fewer post-op suicides, but, the difficulties of "passing" appear to cause anxieties in themselves.

To suggest that pre-school children are anything other than themselves is ludicrous. Bet that was added to the form by someone who reads Huff Post and has never actually met a child.

My daughter started school as a rabbit. She hopped to school. On hands and feet, like an actual bunny. She wouldn't speak, only twitch her nose and would only answer to "Blossom". Lasted for months.

Most families have a story like that.

Cos it's normal.

(she has long since resumed bi-pedal walking and is mortified when we call her "Blossom". Which we do every now and again for entertainment value)

My son insisted on wearing dresses at this, age 3 and 4, and every time he had a chance to dress up it would be in a princess outfit if there was one, and he was fascinated by high heels. We allowed him to experiment and dress as he wished most of the time -- so he's wear school uniform and get changed into a dress the moment he came back. He used to say it was more comfortable, especially in the summer, and we never make an issue of it. I think that if we had raised the issue about gender identity with him it would have harmed his natural development, it's totally unnecessary, imo. Also, will someone please explain what it means to "feel" like a woman? I might be missing something but for me being a woman is dependent on my biology and all that entails. How can a child of 4 explain what "gender" they identify with?
By the way, my son is now 8 and he seems to not be interested in dresses anymore. His interests are unusual and changing all the time...

oh, and my daughter insisted that she was a duck at that age...

wonderful poem hairy!

Why do school need to know? Do they treat boys and girls differently? Why on earth else does it matter?

I'm glad this trans bollocks is starting to get into the media a bit more, with a more sceptical slant.

for Hairy.

When I read that gender bollocks I just knew it had to be Brighton.

Thinking back to my childhood. Under the Brighton bollocks I would have identified as a boy. Why? Because I happened to like the interesting (to me) stuff that boys were supposed to do and disliked the (to me) boring stuff that girls were supposed to do - I am talking decades ago here, so I also resented the greater freedom boys were given then.

So, I persuaded mum to cut my hair sort, always wore trousers and often got called sonny. That way I got to do 'boy' stuff.

I grew up to be a straight, 100% heterosexual female. Imagine if I lived in bollocky Brighton today. How screwed up would I be once the faux pyscho mind doctors and ultra-liberal trendies had got hold of me. Do these idiots realise the potential damage they are doing, simply because they don't seem able to tell the difference between gender and sex?

Bog off Brighton.

Whether you do it intentionally or not, by posting this link you are peddling hate. You have posted a link to a recognised hate group made up of far right wing, homophobic, religious nuts who are not paediatricians but who call themselves "The American College of Pediatricians" in order to deliberately confuse themselves with the American Academy of Paediatrics which advocates for a supportive approach to children who struggle with gender dysphoria, an internationally recognised condition. Therapeutic services from expert clinicians exist on the NHS for the same.

Thank you for posting that information Sunburntfactor50, it is extremely helpful to be made aware of this.