examples of misogyny permeating our culture, demonstrated by the bloke pouring hot coffee on his head.

[UnDeuxTroisCatsSank]

I read this article about a homeless man who accepted $5 from an arrogant shit in exchange for pouring hot coffee over his head. And the arrogant shit filmed it on his phone, presumably for "fun".

The homeless man, Ronald Leggatt, explained later he was desperate for the money and so willing to take the burns from the hot coffee.

Shocking and appalling behavior from the arrogant shit.

There's a happier ending in that someone overheard the whole thing, confronted the shit and then tried to make things better for Mr. Leggatt, including paying for him to get into a shelter during Hurricane Jonas and getting him some clothes from Walmart.

But this whole sorry story got me thinking. About the parallels with prostitution. Hang on, bear with me.

I just thought that most people would be appalled by the story of Mr Leggatt and empathize with his desperation to get $5 and yet when women are desperate, penniless, just surviving in dire financial straits and ready to do something, anything even though it will cause them harm such as sell their bodies, I don't see good Samaritans rushing to buy them clothes in Walmart and checking them into hostels for the night.

I think many people feel that people working as prostitutes are (a) willing and (b) maybe even like it. Never considering what desperation can make a person do.

Mr Leggatt was desperate and acted in a way that most people would never do.
Many prostituted women are desperate and act in a way that many people would never do.

One is understood and receives empathy, the other not only accepted but vilified, judged and othered.

Just thoughts about the misogyny that permeates our culture.

(And I hope Mr Leggatt gets medical help and support, because he does sound desperate, poor bloke.)

and yes, prostitutes do have the choice to not starve, and if i was in that position I would do it too, without worrying about the bigger picture and who is right or wrong. Its small scale capitalism

Branleuse, it wasn't just about personal dignity for the coffee man. It was about someone wanting to gratify their desire to be sadistic. If someone hadn't offered him money to pour scalding coffee over his head, he wouldn't have had that option. Do you think it's a good thing for him to be able to do that? Do you think it's a mutually beneficial transaction? Do you think it should be legal for poor people to sell their kidneys to rich people? Where do you draw the line? Or don't you?

I dont want poor people to sell their kidneys to rich people. Of course I dont. I dont want people to have to feel theyve got no other options in life but to do things for money that they dont want to do. To put themselves in danger for money. This is the entire black market, which of course poor people and especially poor women are over-represented in.

you cant tackle prostitution or whatever equivalent things poor people do for money without tackling inequality and poverty.

banning prostitution is the equivalent of those spikes in town centres to tackle homelessness, or banning begging.

This is the point though. No need to go off on a tangent. Do you think it should be legal for poor people to sell their kidneys to rich people? Or sell themselves into slavery? Surely it would give them more options? At what point do you draw the line and why do you draw it there?

there is no need to bring in the "men prostitute themselves too" line

on this board there should be an understanding that when we are talking about women's experiences, then we are talking about women's experiences

call me lazy, but I get tired of prefacing every single statement I make with "women (and men, of course)" or "men (and women,of course)" or the ubiquitous "not all men"

women, by virtue of being women, are more economically disadvantaged than men this more likely to take desperate measures and use anything they have

men, less so, and from what I understand most males who perform sex acts for money are doing it for other men

`I think my personal opinion would certainly mean there was a world of difference between someone having major surgery to remove organs, or actual slavery compared to having sex with someone for money.

id also say that there is a big difference between prostitution and slavery, and whilst the whole sex industry does have a problem with slavery and trafficking, as do several industries, the two are not actually the same, being that its perfectly possible to have sex for money and not be harmed, nor regret it. Noone is trying to save high class escorts making thousands and living in luxury, so when exactly does it become a problem and why?
Is it the poverty thats the problem

i only said men prostitute themselves too, because mr noseybonk said that if men tried to prosttute themselves on street corners they would starve pretty quickly.

Its not the case

and yeah, they did it with other men.

but the comment was only in response to that statement

But your argument was that prostitution was something poor people did out of desperation because they didn't have any other options. That is basically your entire justification for it. So you would surely like them to have as many options as possible?

Who are you to tell them what to do with their own bodies?

I consider the use "high class" call girls to be just a variation along the same spectrum as paying a tenner for a blow job on a street corner

The same mindset in the purchaser, the same entitlement.

use of

Why are you likening sex, to organ removal?????

Im worried about the poverty that leads people to do things they dont want to do. I dont want people to feel they have to prostitute themselves, but its a bit fucking different to organ harvesting

And in many cases, prostitution is "actual slavery" and even more cases both abusive and coercive.

Why are you trying to minimise that, Branleuse?

'The same mindset in the purchaser, the same entitlement'

Completely agree

yeah, in many cases the two link. Its a major reason for slavery worldwide.

that doesnt mean all prostitutes are slaves.

I dont like prostitution any more than you do. Its one of those things that is there though, and no amount of legislation or social stigma will do much to stop it.

I have 2 kidneys. I could manage with just one, and I have no other options. I'm desperate. A rich person has offered me lots of money for one of them. I really need to survive. Why shouldn't I be able to sell my kidney?

I think you quite possibly do like prostitution a little more than I do.

im not minimising slavery. Its horrific. Im saying that not all prostitution is slavery, and it doesnt help understand a problem if you are insisting that all prostitution is the same and all men who useprostitutes think in a certain way, and all women who do it are slaves. How do you understand a problem when you dont even want to look at any part of the picture that doesnt fit your narrative.

I didn't say that. You're missing the point.

Do you think I should be able to sell my kidney to a rich person? If not, why not, if I have no other options? How will I survive? Why do you think you can tell me what I can do with my body?

I remember seeing on one of those police squad programs, a man caught getting a blow job from a prostitute , and the police made the woman give the man his money back because they had interrupted him!

why do you keep asking me that?? If you had no other option, I wouldnt want you to do that. If I knew you, id do anything to stop it coming to that. I wouldnt give a fuck about the law. What poor people do to survive and keep their families alive is a massive issue. I wouldnt be saying it should be legal to sell your kidney. Id be saying why isnt the state providing for you while you were in such desperate need. What the fuck went wrong. Why do we have people living in palaces and then streets away people with nothing contemplating selling their kidney. Taking away the very little that poor people have, isnt my goal. Reducing inequality so there is less poverty in a rich first world country IS.

That's great. Not sure why you're trying to minimise the harm prostitution does then.