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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transgender pupils allowed to chose uniform

114 replies

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 20/01/2016 17:39

So girls still have to wear skirts and boys still have to wear trousers. This is merely the reinforcing of gender stereotypes hidden under the banner of progressive open-mindedness. Why not allow pupils to pick which they'd rather, regardless of sex?

Uniform changes

OP posts:
lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 23:49

Ah, Lass, I thought you were saying girls shouldn't be allowed to wear trousers.

Are you okay with boys in skirts then? Sorry if I misunderstood you.

I also can't be the only girl who had that problem with tights and eczema. Haven't worn skirt and tights since I left school. When I think of that horrible weeping eczema I still shudder.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 23:51

Actually Lass you did say you wouldn't support a daughter wanting to wear trousers.

sweetkitty · 20/01/2016 23:51

One of my daughters has worn trousers to school since she was 6, she does not own a dress or a skirt. Now she's approaching secondary she has been teased about having to wear a skirt but it's not compulsory and if it were I would not be sending her to a school that made skirts for girls compulsory.

Personally I would rather see girls in trousers than the bum skimming/same length as their Blazers things that pass for skirts these days.

Blu · 20/01/2016 23:56

So to begin with they had a boys uniform, trousers, which only boys could wear, and a girls uniform, skirts, which only girls could wear .
And now they have a trouser uniform, which only boys and those who identify as boys can wear, and a skirt uniform, which only girls and those who identify as girls can wear?

Far out!

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 23:57

Sweet, I do not know how to explain how much I'd love to be able to say I never ever wore a skirt! My mum asked primary and secondary, they both said no.

I also hate it if boys are allowed to wear boots and girls aren't.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 23:58

Blu, that made me lol.

Hopefully the school will clarify this.

sweetkitty · 21/01/2016 00:08

I don't actually know if my daughter is transgender or just a tomboy only time will tell. I just want her to be happy. Part of that happiness is that she dresses like a boy right down to her underwear. There isn't way she would be wearing a skirt to school if she did not feel happy to do so. I would actively fight for her right to do so.

Why all the hoo haa? Just allow children to wear what they want skirts or trousers.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 21/01/2016 00:32

Actually Lass you did say you wouldn't support a daughter wanting to wear trousers

Yes, in the context of the uniform at my son's school. If I had had a daughter she would have gone to that school. The uniform is a skirt.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 21/01/2016 00:40

Are you okay with boys in skirts then?

Not sure how has anything to do with my preference for skirts.

Blu I don't think that is what the school is suggesting but the articles are very badly written.

merrymouse · 21/01/2016 05:44

Why should I have a logical argument beyond I find trousers on women really unattractive.

You don't need a logical argument, but without one your personal preference for skirts is irrelevant to uniform policy.

merrymouse · 21/01/2016 07:25

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12109564/Brighton-College-scraps-century-old-uniform-code-to-accommodate-transgender-pupils.html

This article has quotes from the headmaster. It seems to be very much about girls wearing one uniform and boys another, with exceptions only being made for pupils whose parents have written to the school to say that their child is gender dysphoric.

merrymouse · 21/01/2016 08:21

It does seem to be a school that goes in for press releases. They are apparently the first school to make mandarin compulsory and the top performing co-educational school in Sussex/the uk (not sure how far down the list they come when you include single sex schools) and the headmaster got some kind of award from esteemed educational journal 'The Tatler'.

TheWomanInTheWall · 21/01/2016 08:22

i would ptefer skirts only uniform for girls. I really don't care what argument you come up with.

I'm surprised at this from you, lass. I understand your personal preference for skirts but what is the point of girls (and boys) not having the choice, which they will almost certainly have when working?

I'm in trousers right now - they are lined and it saves me the bother of tights, a further expense.

Oh, and some people have legs that rub together in hot weather - linen trousers are more comfortable than a skirt and no hotter - more casually, shorts or culottes are another cool option.

Disclaimer: none of the above is intended to invalidate, disbelieve or otherwise criticise your own opinion of the comfort of skirts; I hope you will return that courtesy.

TheWomanInTheWall · 21/01/2016 08:25

I went for an interview once at a US company in the uk. The American interviewer mentioned she was surprised (and envious) that wearing skirts without pantyhose seemed to be fine in the summer in the UK; she was wearing nude tights. In that situation, I'm not sure skirts would be the cooler option, though YMMV of course.

AnotherNewt · 21/01/2016 08:29

"They are apparently the first school to make mandarin compulsory"
Doubt that - Dulwich has been doing it for ages (years 7 and 8, with option to continue).

"The top performing co-educational school in Sussex/the uk" - possibly, but it does depend on who is compiling the tables and what filters they apply. I've seen totally different lists for the same year.

"The headmaster got some kind of award from esteemed educational journal 'The Tatler'."
There have been separate threads about the likely purpose of The Tatler's lists.

AnotherNewt · 21/01/2016 08:33

I've just had a look at the uniform.

It's not (at present) a case of the same uniform with either skirts or trousers. The shirts/blouses are also different, ties are only worn with trousers, and it looks as if the blazers are different too.

So letting each pupil choose which of the two they wear is one thing.

Adding a trouser option to the skirt uniform is a separate issue, and one that they do not seem to be tackling.

merrymouse · 21/01/2016 08:40

Basically, the only way for a girl to wear trousers would be to formally identify as a boy.

So in terms of changing 170 years of uniform policy, they are now in about 1879.

IfItsGoodEnough4ShirleyBassey · 21/01/2016 09:01

Unfortunately my natural instinct to say I was feeling that I was definitely a boy in the winter and definitely a girl in the summer would get very expensive if it meant a complete new set of shirts and a new blazer.

lorelei9 · 21/01/2016 10:26

if it's really the case that they are still enforcing gender based rules on school uniform, then we are actually massively behind.

merrymouse · 21/01/2016 10:53

Mirror headline:

Brighton College becomes first school in Britain to scrap uniform policy so all children can wear skirts or trousers

Except for all of those schools where you can wear what you want, and let's not forget how long men and boys have been wearing kilts in Scotland.

GreenTomatoJam · 21/01/2016 10:58

Oh, and some people have legs that rub together in hot weather - linen trousers are more comfortable than a skirt and no hotter - more casually, shorts or culottes are another cool option.

Oh this. When I switched schools to a mixed school I had to wear a skirt. I spent most of summer with red raw thighs, until bicycle shorts came into fashion and I could wear them under my skirt.

I too lived in the country, and if I'd worn skirts when clambering over stiles and through the woods I would have come home covered in scratches and stinging nettle stings. In fact, the warden of the woods tried to ban kids from going into the woods with their legs exposed (shorts or skirts - he was a bit weird) entirely as he felt it was dangerous.

merrymouse · 21/01/2016 10:59

This head has form:

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3813521

Apparently Brighton College was the first public school (not sure what the criteria is for public vs. Private school) to have an openly gay head boy.

I bet all the other public schools are kicking themselves for not getting their head boys and girls to talk to the press about their sexuality.

MrNoseybonk · 21/01/2016 11:15

One of my daughters has worn trousers to school since she was 6, she does not own a dress or a skirt. Now she's approaching secondary she has been teased about having to wear a skirt but it's not compulsory and if it were I would not be sending her to a school that made skirts for girls compulsory.

My daughter has never worn skirts or dresses, wven though we've bought them for her from time to time when she was younger. She has Asperger's and we can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do.
Luckily both school's she's attended have allowed a choice of skirts/dresses or trousers for girls (but only trousers for boys), so there hasn't been a problem.
If there was I would think it was weird and old fashioned - my high school altered it's policy to allow girls to wear trousers way back in 1990 and I assumed it was now universal!

BarbarianMum · 21/01/2016 11:58

Anyone who thinks that tree climbing, blackberrying, bike riding, running, camping, jumping and generally messing around outside is done as easily in a skirt as trousers clearly hasn't spent much time doing any of these things. Hmm Are they impossible in a skirt - no. Easier - no.

Long skirts get caught and tangled and you can't crawl in them. Short skirts offer little protection agains cold, prickles and scratches (and yards of gravel if you fall off said bike). They also ride up if tight (not a problem if you don't mind showing your pants) and catch up if loose.

Honestly Lass trust me on this.

GreenTomatoJam · 21/01/2016 12:06

Agree Barbarian.

I used to walk across the fields to school, and the number of times my skirt got caught as I got over the stiles. My sister got jammed once and fell into the pit full of stinging nettles below it.

I only remember riding a bike in a skirt once (BMX) - the skirt kinda wrapped itself round the saddle under my legs (hard to explain, but the bottom hem caught like a jumper on a doorknob) and I fell over when getting off.