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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transgender pupils allowed to chose uniform

114 replies

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 20/01/2016 17:39

So girls still have to wear skirts and boys still have to wear trousers. This is merely the reinforcing of gender stereotypes hidden under the banner of progressive open-mindedness. Why not allow pupils to pick which they'd rather, regardless of sex?

Uniform changes

OP posts:
CultureSucksDownWords · 20/01/2016 20:57

Lass why do you prefer skirts-only for girls? I'm not going to try and dissuade you btw!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 21:11

merry I'm not particularly bothered whether you take my opinion seriously. There's plenty of opinions on MN I don't take seriously. Why should I have a logical argument beyond I find trousers on women really unattractive.

If I had had a daughter rather than a son I would not have supported her if she had agitated for the school to change its uniform policy. I wasn't aware of it ever being raised when my son was there.

Would seem the majority of parents aren't bothered by the policy. The school is one of the most succesful private schools in Scotland and still has a uniform policy.

Original poster
ChiefClerkDrumknott · 20/01/2016 21:12

From the BBC:

"The school is introducing a "trouser uniform" and a "skirt uniform" that can be worn by pupils up to age 16, regardless of their biological gender."

Ah ok, that's not what it said when I read it... It said transgender pupils could pick the uniform that matched their gender. I wouldn't have posted it as a negative move, otherwise. The above is much more positive.

However biological gender I find extremely Hmm

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 21:14

Having said that I hope the Guardian et al have just badly misreported what has happened - I. E school will allow girls to wear trousers and boys to wear skirts rather than it being a big trans recognition thing.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 21:16

"The school is introducing a "trouser uniform" and a "skirt uniform" that can be worn by pupils up to age 16, regardless of their biological gender

What happens at 16?

IfItsGoodEnough4ShirleyBassey · 20/01/2016 21:18

Lots of schools go uniform free for 6th formers (or the dreaded "business suits") so that would be my guess.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 21:20

Lass, seriously? You think girls should wear skirts because you think they are more attractive and you think attractiveness is important for a school uniform?! Wow, I'm glad you aren't my mum Grin

My mum argued for girls to be allowed trousers on principle. As I got older there was a practical problem as well- tights made my eczema much worse. I think I should be allowed to bill the school for all the failed treatments I've had to get rid of the scarring. Arseholes.

If I were running a dictatorship I'd say trousers for all, much more practical, but in real life I think all kids should have a choice.

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/01/2016 21:24

LassWiTheDelicateAir in the 6th form at Brighton College it is "business wear" and the girls can choose either a skirt or trouser suit. The boys I think also wear suits but maybe now they can choose to wear a skirt suit if they want to?

FloraFox · 20/01/2016 21:28

Interesting that many schools have had requests for girls to be able to wear trousers with varying but generally little success. Now that transgender is such a hot topic, uniforms policies are changing. It wasn't enough that girls might not want to wear a skirt.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 21:33

Flora, exactly. I'm just trying to see what my old school 's policy is. It really does stun me that the law wasn't amended ages ago, or made at all.

I wonder how many girls at school are being denied the choice to wear trousers and maybe even because their parents won't support them?

I don't have kids and I'm pleased to say my friends' kids are all in schools where girls are allowed to wear trousers. Is that more common/likely in state schools?

Keep reminding myself it's 2016. Gah.

HairyLittleCarrot · 20/01/2016 21:34

I would ptefer skirts only uniform for girls.
Why should I have a logical argument beyond I find trousers on women really unattractive.
If I had had a daughter rather than a son I would not have supported her if she had agitated for the school to change its uniform policy.

Lass, I occasionally do find myself wondering how you come to find yourself posting on FWR. Are you lost? The 1950s are that way >>>>>>>

Tribblewithoutacause · 20/01/2016 21:42

My first thought for this was 'what a load of crap.' So someone who is transgendered can pick whichever uniform they like, yet girls can't wear trousers as matter of course?

I've been seeing girls in skirts all this week stood in frigid temperatures in uniform skirts. I've felt really sorry for the lot of them and keep having the thought that they'd be far warmer in a pair of good trousers.

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/01/2016 21:42

My old school still allows trousers/shorts for both boys and girls. I was involved in asking for girls to be allowed to wear trousers (with the backing of my parents!), so I am pleased it is still in place.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 21:43

OMD I didn't even realise this was on the Feminist board, I was thinking "imagine if Lass posted that there". Now I've realised, I'll continue.

Lass you really think girls should be subject to a less practical uniform choice for what you consider to be aesthetics? You'd rather they felt less free to run and jump and climb and you'd rather they had to think about sitting modestly than focus on the important stuff?

Dare I ask what you'd think of a boy in a dress?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 22:19

Why is a skirt less practical? This gets trotted out every time as a mantra. Didn't stop me doing that holiest of feminist holies climbing trees or riding a bike. Where do you get this nonsensical idea that you can't move about or run or climb in a skirt. Guess I must have imagined my childhood.

Why are tight trousers digging in at the waist more comfortable or easier to move in than a loose skirt?

As for trousers being warmer - how does that work exactly? Trousers are one layer of usually unlined material , same material winter and summer,under which you will wear socks. How is that better than a thick lined skirt with thick cotton tights?

And as for tights causing thrush(which I anticipate someone will come up with ) the only time I had thrush was in the brief period I wore jeans.

merry you talked about taking opinions seriously - I find this mantra that trousers are so much better ridiculous too.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 22:26

Lass, I occasionally do find myself wondering how you come to find yourself posting on FWR. Are you lost? The 1950s are that way >>>>

I suppose as well as imagining what my childhood was like I must be imagining that I've had a very successful career in a traditionally male sector, returned to worked full time after pregnancy,kept my name and been financially independent all my adult life. So 1950s

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/01/2016 22:45

The point, Lass, is that it should be personal choice for each girl/woman! Some will prefer trousers, some skirts - each to their own, for different reasons. So, no one should get to dictate trousers over skirt or vice versa. Give each child of whichever sex the choice.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 22:50

Lass, why are trousers tight and digging in?

How does a girl in a skirt climb over a gate or turn a cartwheel without showing the full length of her legs, which she might not want to flash to all and sundry?

How does she sprawl on the grass on a sunny day without worrying the same, or that she'll show gusset and knickers? I too wore a skirt and hated it.

Thats just the practical side. If you don't believe in any of those issues then surely your only objection to girls wearing trousers is you don't like the look of them? Presumably you think boys look fabulous in trousers?

Do you think girls should just be stuck with waving their arses at all and sundry because they wanted to do some active play?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 23:02

Lass, why are trousers tight and digging in?

Because that is how many people wear them. I see women squeezed into trousers and think that looks painful.

As for your other comments about what girls can't do.

Climbing over a gate- no idea what you are on about. Perfectly possible.

Turning cartwheels. Ditto-although have to say cartwheel turning seems to have been an activity conspicuous by its absence in my life - can't recall anyone going in for it much (despite on MN it being second only to tree climbing.)

Re sitting on grass- again no idea what sort of skirt you were wearing, haven't encountered any difficulty.

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/01/2016 23:15

As I said before, this just shows its individual choice. Lass preferred a skirt, I didn't. I was very fond of cartwheeling, doing handstands, and other amateur gymnastics when I was (much) younger. Trousers meant I didn't have to worry about anything. Just my preference, which is why girls shouldn't be compelled to wear one or the other when wearing a school uniform. It's really not about which is better.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 23:21

Lass, just because it worked for you doesn't mean it works for others
I did say sprawling on grass rather than sitting.

Gates, think of railings then. Are you imagining climbing over? If you think of it as a vault motion then you might see more why the skirt is restrictive.

Are you really saying that a girl should not be allowed to wear trousers? I can't see the point of skirts but I wouldn't stop anyone wearing them.

lorelei9 · 20/01/2016 23:23

Also how can you say "ditto" for cartwheels.. How do you do a cartwheel or handstand in a skirt without showing your legs?! Where are these gravity defying skirts sold?!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 23:36

I agree Culture I fully appreciate you probably all thought my comments were nonsense. So what , it's my opinion. I see plenty of opinions on MN I can't take seriously (we are past Christmas now but really, some of the threads....)

However this blanket mantra that trousers are so much more practical blah, blah. I can't take that seriously either.

There was a thread on AIBU about this recently and one of the supposed disadvantages of a dress was a girl could not play in puddles or mud or paddle in the sea. As someone pointed out Why not? Are dresses not washable? So far as paddling , it is far easier to tuck a cotton dress into knickers than roll up trousers.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/01/2016 23:44

.Are you imagining climbing over? If you think of it as a vault motion then you might see more why the skirt is restrictive.

I grew up on a farm. Vaulting gates. In a skirt.

I did not say girls should not be allowed to wear trousers. I said I don't like them , the advantages of trousers are dubious as are the restrictions of skirts or dresses.

It is beyond me why anyone would choose to wear trousers in summer. It looks so uncomfortable. In winter jeans in particular are not warm.

CultureSucksDownWords · 20/01/2016 23:47

I grew up in the countryside, vaulting gates, in trousers Smile

In the summer, linen/cotton wide leg trousers are just as cool as a skirt. And personally I just don't feel comfortable in a skirt, I feel underdressed and exposed. Personal opinion/preference again.