To thick for feminism?

[fastingmum123]

Ok so to start with I'm interested I believe in equal rights and have been lurking on feminist sites and Twitter feeds for a while. The thing is half the time I feel like i can't be involved as everyone always seems so clever and half the time speak another language with all their turf, cis ect ect talk. If you ask what anything means you get scornful responses telling you to look it up ect and tbh it just puts me off having anything to do with it.

Then there's the other weird side where you get the man haters who are all death to all men and just seem plain crazy. Along with them "man bumped into me said sorry. Sexist bastard" types that just don't make any sense what so ever.

Am I the only one who feels they don't fit in?

Margaret Atwood, "Writing the Male Character", reprinted here

"I do not agree with male and female brains. I object to the pinkification of girls, and the stereotyping of activities as belonging to one or the other. (as a child I did ballet and gymnastics - neither of which was easy - but also loved building lego and climbing trees and had permanently skinned knees for a while). I have no idea what people mean when they say they've "always felt like a woman" despite being 40 next year, I just feel like me."

Me too, except the ballet and gymanastic bit. And I'm a few years older than you.

Bertrand, I was on a forum before this one, mostly male and yes, they would have started a thread by saying they might be too thick to understand something.

For the record, it isn't MN where I have found that people equate feminism and parenthood, it's in real life I've found that.

I didn't know I would be welcomed on MN until a parent friend told me about it and a childfree friend chimed in saying she was a regular poster too. I was also attracted by the fiction forum. I find Goodreads etc can be a bit odd but I really enjoy a more honest chat where you can include spoilers and talk stuf through properly.

Lorelei, I'm childfree too so when it comes to matters of feminism relating to motherhood, while I'll chip in now and again, it's not my main area of focus. But there's still loads of feminism left to do that isn't that. Right off the bat, there's the issue that if you don't have children, as a woman certain assumptions are made about you that would never be made about a man. I've been quizzed by a dizzying array of people about my lack of offspring, from friends to family to healthcare providers to perfect strangers, often in quite accusatory and judgemental terms.

While not having children wasn't a choice I exactly freely made (very severe endometriosis and adenomyosis put paid to any ambition in that area), the fact that I just shrugged my shoulders and said "Oh well, childfree it is then" and chucked myself into enjoying the life I've been given, appalled some people. I've been accused of not being "normal", of with-holding the opportunity for children from my husband (I didn't and he wasn't bothered anyway), of missing the entire point of life, of not knowing what love is...I've been told I "should" have had IVF, fostered, adopted, tried harder, not had the hysterectomy that gave me my life back....I could go on. Not one person has ever said any of this to my husband, just to me.

My point is that not being a mother is just one more opportunity for women to get it wrong - you don't get an exemption from the business of being the child-rearing class if you don't have children, you've just failed to live up to the standard in a different way!

Freshwater, I know.

But I tend to see childfree as a whole separate thing not linked to feminism. I also know men who are labelled in all kinds of ways for being CF so I've never linked it to feminism.

Again, easier to say I'm CF because like atheist, there's a core accepted and understood meaning.

Yes, apologies I do know CF is quite specific - I tend to call myself that because I found out children weren't possible when I was still fence-sitting, tending towards a CF stance anyway, and I very much prefer it to childless (I don't lack anything and am perfectly content to be where i am)

I still do think women get more of a hard time for being CF. It's certainly been my experience and that of my CF friends, and my reading of it is because it's "failing" a requirement of womanhood - women "ought" to be maternal and if you're not, then sheesh, what's WRONG with you?? But if you haven't experienced that, then I'm glad!

Also, in terms of childfree feminist action, then the outstanding example is that good, safe, reliable access to contraception and abortion are an absolute must, and that's a core part of feminist action.

You know, I don't think I have ever heard a man being labelled anything for being CF, except to be sympathized with, because it's obviously their wives who are denying them children (true fact- I have heard variations on that several times!)

Bertrand you and I clearly meet very different men. You didn't think any would start a thread this way either.

I've only ever dated men who were committed to being CF. they hear just as much "you're selfish" "you're unnatural" etc as I do. And they're often blamed for"making " their partner "miss out" on kids and we are all questioned about why we don't want them, regardless of gender or sexuality.

I think I see a lot of these issues as part of something other than feminism and something that men can and do participate in. Of course there's loads of overlap in any campaigning area and it can be helpful.