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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Not allowed to be a "miss"

97 replies

Blue14 · 10/01/2016 08:35

"Miss" is my preferred title, I hate "Ms" as being single is a very important part of my identity which I want reflected in my name.

However, there are many situations when I am denied the right to use the title "Miss", for example on my credit card, and on my work ID.

This makes me angry, but I am particularly angry now, having just read on another thread that should a MALE which to be called "Miss", it would be illegal to refuse permission, in NY at least, although I suspect many other places would also take that view.

Angry
OP posts:
LilacSpunkMonkey · 10/01/2016 18:35

Distressing? To not have Miss on your credit card?

Blimey.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/01/2016 18:39

I suppose what Blue might be getting at is when you buy something online at the point you fill in your credit card details the " name" in that box must match the "name" on the card.

So for example I might have completed an order as "Miss Lass Delicateair" but at "name" on the box for card details if I want to use a card where I asked to be called "Ms L W Delicateair" that is what I have to use.

Just looked at a bank statement. I opened my first bank account in 1977 at age 18 and am still with the same bank. I have 3 accounts with them. I see they still call me "Miss" on correspondence but my cards now have "Ms". I know why the cards are different, because I recall asking them to use " Ms" . Clearly I never felt strongly enough (or bothered to read) bank statements !

Kcat78 · 10/01/2016 18:40

Can you use your passport to prove you're 'Miss'? Surely they can't argue that a government office would just put a title there purely because you asked?

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 18:40

It is distressing to regularly be denied the right to be known by my correct name, which includes the title "miss". It is part of my identity. It is important to me. I don't expect people to guess it correctly, any more than I would expect them to guess my first name, but I do expect to be given the option to correct people if they are wrong.

Miss means unmarried female. That is what I am, that is what what I intend to be known as all my life, I am very proud of being single. It is very important to me.

Yes I am distressed that I have to fight for the right to use my correct title, and it is frequently denied to me, when a man apparently has legal protection if chooses to use this title.

OP posts:
SenecaFalls · 10/01/2016 18:42

I think that perhaps you have misunderstood the point of the NYC Human Rights Law. One if its purposes is to assure that transgender people are not addressed or referred to by pronouns and titles associated with a gender they do not identify with. Since Ms tends to be the default title for women in the US, especially in the business context, I doubt that many transwomen are going to insist on being called Miss.

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 18:43

Kcat, thankyou for your suggestion. Unfortunately my passport doesn't have a title in it.

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Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 18:44

but the fact is, they can, and I can't Seneca

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/01/2016 18:48

I have been asked to prove that my name is "miss".

Your name isn't " Miss" any more than mine is "Ms" is "Miss" or my husband's is "Mr".

My selection of Ms or Miss is completely random, have not once had any service provider asking me to prove which preferred title is correct.

EBearhug · 10/01/2016 18:51

I just went into my bank and asked what I needed to do to change the title on my card - my preference was not to have one at all. They did it straight away, and I got a new card in a few days (TBH, I'd have been happy to wait till the existing one expired a few months later, but it didn't make much odds to me either way.) I am not allowed a bank account without a title though, despite that being my preference, but they did also change that then and there to the one I preferred. The only ID I needed was my current bank card. They didn't question whether I should be Miss or Ms or vice versa, but just accepted my preference (except for the no title preference - I can understand distinguishing whether the account-holder is male or female can reduce fraud, but it would not be a major coding issue to have a field marking M/F/other, if no title is preferred.)

Surprised most banks don't work like this.

Do you have any bills from utilities companies etc with your preferred title on? I am not sure off-hand, and can't be bothered to check just now, but I think over the years, I have gathered a selection of different utilities with Miss, Ms and no title spread across them all.

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 18:55

My selection of Ms or Miss is completely random, have not once had any service provider asking me to prove which preferred title is correct.

well, I have, and if you went back to some of the ones who called you Ms and asked them to change it, I'm pretty sure you would too!

As I said, anyone who wants to is welcome to ring my credit card company (Vanquis) ask ask for advice on my behalf, I've tried several times, and can't get anywhere. They are not the only ones, though.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 18:57

Thank you for the suggestion Ebearhug, Vanquis have declined the only printed correspondence I have.

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SenecaFalls · 10/01/2016 18:58

It's because of historical inequalities that women have titles based on marital status and men don't. It is much better for women as a class to do away with those distinctions.

I didn't take my husband's name when I married so Mrs never made sense for me, but most of the married women I know who have their husbands' names also use Ms. Females over the age of 16 or so in the US do not use Miss. It's much more associated with being very young as opposed to being not married.

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 19:00

For me though, it is a way of publically celebrating my single status, and advertising that I believe it is something to celebrate, to a world that sometimes seem to judge it as something shameful that is best hidden.

It is something that matters to me.

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lorelei9 · 10/01/2016 19:11

Blue, have you tweeted at Vanquis? I find this bizarre.

Re your employer, what do they say about your name badge?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/01/2016 19:11

Miss means unmarried female

No it does not. Seneca has explained the US usage.

I am in the UK. I work with and know loads of married "Misses" . I am one

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 19:12

I don't know how to tweet!!would it help, do you think?

My employer just says "Miss" is not an option available on our SIMS system package

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Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 19:13

but like I said, it is not JUST my employer and my credit card, it crops up in many other times and places, those are just the examples i had on the top of my head.

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SenecaFalls · 10/01/2016 19:15

I have never worked in a place where our work badges or business cards had titles on them. And I've been working a long time.

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 19:16

Miss means unmarried female -No it does not

Definition in the Oxford English dictionary:
(Miss) A title prefixed to the name of an unmarried woman or girl, or to that of a married woman retaining her maiden name for professional purposes:

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/01/2016 19:17

well, I have, and if you went back to some of the ones who called you Ms and asked them to change it, I'm pretty sure you would too!

I very much doubt that. The garage who sold me a car incorrectly called me "Mrs" on the registration papers. DVLC changed it back. Can't recall if I asked them for "Miss" or "Ms"

In any case - none of the service providers called me anything- they used whichever title I asked for.(apart from the garage which corrected its mistake)

Original poster
Blue14 · 10/01/2016 19:17

Senaca, you probably don't work in a school

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/01/2016 19:19

Definition in the Oxford English dictionary:
(Miss) A title prefixed to the name of an unmarried woman or girl, or to that of a married woman retaining her maiden name for professional purposes:

Proves nothing. My late mother had no "professional status" , married twice and was always Miss.

almondpudding · 10/01/2016 19:21

There are staff with the title 'Miss' at both my children's state schools. Neither of them have been taught by a 'Ms.'

CultureSucksDownWords · 10/01/2016 19:25

Blue14 I was a "Miss" when I worked in schools and that was what was printed on my ID card, SIMS is perfectly able to store Miss as a title. It sounds like they're fobbing you off with an excuse because they can't be bothered to change it. I would insist on some time with whoever is responsible for SIMS, get them to show you your staff record in SIMS and insist on them changing it in front of you. They could probably print you a new ID card at the same time.

JassyRadlett · 10/01/2016 19:26

If I encounter pisspoor customer service (which this sounds like) I take my custom elsewhere. Particularly if i find the problem I'm complaining about distressing. Why don't you do that?

I don't doubt there are customer service reps out there spouting this sort of bollocks. It would be a tough sell for them to explain to their supervisors why they'd lost a customer because they wouldn't correct a person's title.

Do you have a source for the article you read?