Would anyone be interested in a Feminist critique of The Big Bang Theory?

[ShadowsCollideIsSurroundedByAd]

Inspired by the Friends thread from years ago (was it by SOH?) I watched an episode of TBBT tonight and it genuinely repulsed me.

Howard is a creepy, pushy, sex pest.

Leonard is even worse though. He's the Ross from Friends style 'nice guy'. He's nasty, manipulative, possessive, and in the episode I watched earlier, lorded over and sneered at Penny when she forgot his birthday, then made a joke out of the fact that he'd read her journal, and massively invaded her privacy.

When I first watched TBBT I thought I enjoyed it, but the raging misogyny has put me off. Any other thoughts on it?

Or if we wish we can watch it, enjoy it and then discuss how sexist it is

Showofhands that's a good MN legacy!

Whatever it is (and I do think it's both misogynistic and misandrist), it's yet another tv show full of absolutely horrible people being horrible to each other in a way that nobody I know would even contemplate. I suppose that is the foundation of its humour: we cannot say those things to our friends, we cannot treat them that way, we must be better than that if we are to get on in life, but maybe part of us would like to be that vile. I don't know; I don't want to be!

Leonard stands out as the worst, though. He's often portrayed as the nice guy, the geeky one who just wants love and is as normal as your average hunk, behind the glasses and the lack of height. What a lot of arse. He's a nasty shit and no amount of wistful self-deprecation can hide it.

I find him the hardest to take. Howard's really obviously a shit, Sheldon is whatever he is and presumably perfectly capable of analysing behaviour and modelling it (but doesn't) - but Leonard is 'the nice guy' yet behaves so appallingly whenever he can. It's gross.

If a masculinist were to raise a magnifying glass to this TV show, he would have a field day taking it apart for what he may consider to be blatant misandry. This is the problem. Positive stereotypes of the 'other' group are still prejudice. Negative stereotypes of the dominant group are still prejudice.

One of the most damaging things the patriarchy has done is paint women as capable, caring, beautiful, icons while men are fat, stupid buffoons. These shows are mostly written by men so unless it's internalized 'misandry' it's strange to call it misandry.

Women are left with the stereotype that they have to look after the home, work, take care of everyone and fight to stay young and beautiful while men aren't expected to much except work and be idiots.

I expect more than that of men because while I'm a feminist, I don't hate men or think they're incapable idiots. The show is sexist and stereotypes can hurt men too.

Which you are, of course, entitled to do, DuckDeamon. However, you must be willing to analyse it objectively and consider the stereotypes drawn from both genders; which the participants of this thread have failed to do thus far. They have chosen to exclusively regard the plights of the female characters, and thus, come to the erroneous and ridiculous conclusion that the show espouses misogyny.

Interesting thread, thank you! I have to say that I love the show on a purely shallow basis but may see it with a more critical eye in the future.

I watched a programme all about tbbt today and was fascinated to discover that the woman who plays Amy Farrah Fowler is in fact a neuroscientist with a PhD as well as an actor.

This is a good article that may help you understand

here

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UglyGuyHotWife See also Give Geeks a Chance.

"Howard will never be lucky enough to find another women like Bernadette."

Because he is a sexist pig basically.

There are all some quite nasty undertones and rape jokes.

noted here

"One of the most damaging things the patriarchy has done is paint women as capable, caring, beautiful, icons while men are fat, stupid buffoons. These shows are mostly written by men so unless it's internalized 'misandry' it's strange to call it misandry.

Women are left with the stereotype that they have to look after the home, work, take care of everyone and fight to stay young and beautiful while men aren't expected to much except work and be idiots."

Pray tell, MrsTerryPratchett; what evidence do you have that the show portrays these messages to its watchers? Because every single female character I can recall works full-time and is capable of supporting herself. In fact, Bernadette earns a considerable amount more than Howard; and we often see him asking her for permission to buy expensive items. Also, in a general sense, what is the evidence for this being the case in modern Western society?

I enjoyed the first two series and haven't enjoyed the rest so much. In those, the men were shown as high ASF, the women as a mixture of academic ability but all the young ones as highly emotionally intelligent as well as some, not all, of the older ones. I loved Mrs Cooper, for example, though in RL I would avoid her.

I feel it has lost its way.

I so agree re mysogenistic US sitcoms. Cannot bear Malcolm in the middle, screeching mother, also friends, modern family etc.

Rather than lazily posting links you just acquired from a Google search, formulate your own thoughts and conclusions.

Pray tell? Fuck that shit. I just wanted a chat about TBBT not to explain why 'positive' stereotypes to someone hostile to the idea. Happy New Year. Pray tell [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/oliver-burkemans-blog/2012/dec/12/stereotypes-bad-even-when-good]

I have formed my own thoughts thank you .

You asked for examples (which means you are having trouble processing the ones already a mentioned on this thread.)

I have you some. Have a go at reading them. You might learn something other than the ability to make snide comments.

Oh no *mrsprattchet" we can't use links. Dear me no. Using other examples no matter how good and well written they are isn't acceptable as they aren't our "own thoughts".

Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

Interesting re the relationship between Penny and Sheldon. It's as if when sex is off the table (so to speak) they can move on with getting to know each other and becoming friends.

The way in which your argument disintegrated (with the lightest touch of scrutiny), MrsTerryPratchett, speaks volumes about your superficial understanding of the subject. The problem with only exposing yourself to like-minded people is that it prevents you from coming into contact with opposing views that challenge your preconceptions.

Sheldon, is that you?

I stopped watching when there was a joke about Howard inventing both a robot girlfriend and a robot prostitute "because there are some things you don't do with a robot girlfriend".

It's a horrible joke which depends on the assumed acceptability of cheating on your girlfriend with a prostitute and the madonna/whore thing of putting your girlfriend on a pedestal but being perfectly happy to abuse that woman over there instead. Plus the creepiness of wanting to build your own compliant robot women in the first place.

You're incredibly hostile about something that appears to be quite a lighthearted subject. And quite hostile to me (and others). You really want us to be wrong. The fact is that arguing with someone like that is exhausting, futile and not pleasant.

Positive stereotypes are damaging. Many people have written many words on the subject. I'm not spending my time and energy on someone who clearly doesn't want to engage with that.

And feminism isn't a 'subject' to me. The patriarchy is the sea we all swim in. It would hardly be surprising if a contemporary show about any people had some of that in it.

Anyway, I'm off to get my DD up. While my hungover DH sleeps. Oh, the humanity!

I've remembered another reason Leonard is shit. When he finds out Penny is earning more than he is in her new job and is actually investing it or whatever, he cannot BELIEVE it and reacts so negatively. It's like she's meant to be his little woman and the moment she has a bit of success, instead of supporting her, he's too busy focusing on how it makes him feel inferior.

Behold a man has arrived to share his...oh I cannot be bothered.

I used to watch and enjoy it for what it was, but then I watched the episode where Leonard & Penny were at a restaurant. He dismissed the waitress without looking at her and I thought "ooh, massive red flag, run for the hills Penny!"

I hate the way Howard treats Bernadette, the way Sheldon treats Amy, and how Leonard treats Penny (indeed, how he treats all his girlfriends). I hate that they mock Raj's accent, how possessive he is of his sister, yet the show still makes me laugh. Can't tell how Leonard stacks up against Ross, I've never seen Friends.

You're incredibly hostile about something that appears to be quite a lighthearted subject. And quite hostile to me (and others). You really want us to be wrong. The fact is that arguing with someone like that is exhausting, futile and not pleasant.

This is the essence of discussion, MrsTerryPratchett; when one person offers an opinion, the other can accept it, refute it or request further evidence that can support it. I merely request that you qualify your audacious opinions with some evidence, which you have thus far been unable to produce. If you are unable to convince somebody of something due to insufficient or erroneous evidence; that is your own shortcoming.

Positive stereotypes are damaging. Many people have written many words on the subject. I'm not spending my time and energy on someone who clearly doesn't want to engage with that.

On the contrary, I have asked you to bring forth your arguments for me to consider. Yet you are unable/unwilling to do even that.

And feminism isn't a 'subject' to me. The patriarchy is the sea we all swim in. It would hardly be surprising if a contemporary show about any people had some of that in it.

Once again, you inject a ludicrous opinion to the discussion without a single qualification thereof! What evidence do you have of modern western societies being patriarchal?