Would anyone be interested in a Feminist critique of The Big Bang Theory?

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Inspired by the Friends thread from years ago (was it by SOH?) I watched an episode of TBBT tonight and it genuinely repulsed me.

Howard is a creepy, pushy, sex pest.

Leonard is even worse though. He's the Ross from Friends style 'nice guy'. He's nasty, manipulative, possessive, and in the episode I watched earlier, lorded over and sneered at Penny when she forgot his birthday, then made a joke out of the fact that he'd read her journal, and massively invaded her privacy.

When I first watched TBBT I thought I enjoyed it, but the raging misogyny has put me off. Any other thoughts on it?

If we say we have no evidence and are making it all up off the top of our fluffy little heads will you fuck off back to whatever Mansplain Island you rowed over from?

I've remembered another reason Leonard is shit. When he finds out Penny is earning more than he is in her new job and is actually investing it or whatever, he cannot BELIEVE it and reacts so negatively. It's like she's meant to be his little woman and the moment she has a bit of success, instead of supporting her, he's too busy focusing on how it makes him feel inferior.

I imagine that was a knee-jerk reaction to the idea that Penny will be earning more than him; a cocktail of conflicting emotions allowed his selfish and egotistical side to emerge. However, by the end of the episode, after processing the news fully, he was able to congratulate her with sincerity.

Why did he react in such a despicable manner? Perhaps it is due to the societal expectation for men to be higher earners that their female partners; indeed, Howard is frequently mocked for earning less than Bernadette. He was wrestling with the idea of being considered "less of a man" in the sordid eyes of his friends and society as a whole. This is an unrealistic and flawed expectation that damages both men and women for differing reasons. However, such conflicts exist in the real world; the show simply portrays that reality in a humorous and satirical manner, which is great.

Thank you Exalted for coming here and putting us right. Where would we be without you?

If we say we have no evidence and are making it all up off the top of our fluffy little heads will you fuck off back to whatever Mansplain Island you rowed over from?

ArkATerre; you misunderstand me. I joined this site to engage in rational debate and express my views on a controversial topic while giving due consideration to other modes of thinking. The issue with a site like this is that it attracts people who espouse very similar views and adopt the same ideological standpoint (more or less). You reinforce each others' beliefs without ever encountering challenging opinions; you become comfortable with your opinions because you never have to defend or critically analyse them. Consider me as that opposing point of view which demands logical and well-reasoned explanations.

Hadn't seen the robot episode, sounds bleugh.

Quite enjoyed stephen merchant's recent scenes with Amy.

Wonder if How I Met Your Mother is any better?

The robot episode is horridly creepy. Goes too far imo. Yeah, we get it, Howard is a sleaze, don't need to see him with his bits trapped in machinery

I consider you a knobhead with time on his hands trolling the FWR section of MN. Hth.
It's amusing to read your posts in Sheldon's patronising Texas whine though

LOL. Your arguments aren't nearly as clever as you think they are, "Exalted". You'd like feminist posters on the feminist board of mumsnet to explain feminism and the notion of patriarchy to you from the beginning, would you? For your entertainment? How very novel and surprising.

Crosspost with Arkaterre who basically said what I wanted to say

I consider you a knobhead with time on his hands trolling the FWR section of MN. Hth.
It's amusing to read your posts in Sheldon's patronising Texas whine though

I suppose ad hominem attacks are all one can afford when they lack the ability to piece together a compelling argument. Indeed, it is much easier to attack the person than to make an attempt at refuting their argument (which you are certainly incapable of doing).

Aye, I am. Dunno why you are bothering to talk to me at all, with your Big Manly Brain and Articulacy. Tchuh.

What evidence do you have of modern western civilisations being patriarchal?

Ha Ha Ha.. . . Best laugh I've had all day.

Why do MRAs always write in that terrible style? Does anyone ever respond well to it? Pray tell.

I'm off to RaceBaitr to explain racism and arguing to Black people. And how there isn't racism and how they made it all up.

Hold on, I won't because I'm not an enormous wanker who thinks it's all an intellectual exercise and I respect people's lived experience.

Dodged a bullet there.

Exalted has a point whether you like it or not.

I'm not an enormous wanker who thinks it's all an intellectual exercise

Well, you certainly can't engage in intellectual exercise; I have witnessed this myself. I haven't seen much evidence of that other thing, though.

Urgh.

Exalted. We're here for a chat, where we are all roughly equals, not to justify ourselves to you so you can be 'satisfied with my evaluation and judgement of its arguments' - dude, you're just some other person on the internet, no better or worse than anyone here, and you have no more right to demand examples and proof (and get them) than anyone else.

There are a lot more intellectual threads that you can visit and talk to people on - in fact we're known for being up our own arses in this section, so you should fit right in (good luck talking episa whatsit some of the regulars though - they do it for a living)

Anyhow. I've only seen one episode - not even all of one, I had to turn it off when they started making bloody appalling jokes at the indian character's expense. I'm not indian myself, but I work with plenty and consider them to be friends (oh, and shock! Human beings, not comedy props to ridicule because of their accent/life experience).

Most US sitcoms are terribly sexist though. Idiot blokes, screeching wives, naughty boys and clothes obsessed girls. I think that's why they need tinned laughter - to tell you when you're supposed to be finding something funny.

If you want something treating these issues with humour and sensitivity, try something more like the Detectorists (I bloody love the detectorists) - there's a subtle, thoughtful comedy.

Bit scared of commenting now! As I think exalted does make one good point.

Isn't it important how a show deals with certain issues, rather than the issues themselves, which just reflect society? I'm not saying BBT always gets it right, but a lot of the sexist stereotypes do seem to be presented as ridiculous/dealt with rather than just accepted. So eg. Howard being upset that Penny earns more isn't just accepted as "poor Howard" but actually more "So what? Why does that matter?"

This is more a comment in response to some of the examples that have been given rather than the show overall though.

For me it goes back further than how it's treated in the episode though - it's that that is seen as a valid plot line - why have a plotline with robot prostitutes at all? Why not pick less sexist plotlines?

It's not like BBT is supposed to be some deep social commentary, they're not treating these issues as anything more than a cheap laugh, how about we avoid sexist cheap laughs, and racist cheap laughs in a lighthearted comedy?

element there's no issue with disagreeing. I've had knockabouts in here about things like the Harry Enfield 'women' sketches. It's the arrogance of coming on and appointing oneself the voice of reason and telling people how they have to engage with you in order to be taken seriously.

I agree with you that there are elements of holding a mirror up and showing how stupid some of the characters are for being the way they are. There are, I believe, also issues which they don't treat that way. The episode where L and S are in Penny's apartment while she is sleep... That worries me. They are doing something abusive and criminal and making out it's just a little 'silly'...

Yy. It's presented as harmless because of who they are and the fact their characters are geeky and powerless.

you have no more right to demand examples and proof (and get them) than anyone else.

When somebody makes a ludicrous claim and intends to be taken seriously, the burden of proof falls on them; they cannot expect people to simply accept their assertions without criticism. Arguing that this show promotes misogyny is, not only preposterous, but entirely baseless. I am still waiting for proponents of this erroneous view to bring forth their reasoning. And I use this term very loosely.

they started making bloody appalling jokes at the indian character's expense [...] Most US sitcoms are terribly sexist though.

You speak as if the show draws humour from Indian culture exclusively. The truth of the matter is that the background of every character is satirised using stereotypes, such as Sheldon's southern mother and Howard's Jewish heritage. This show merely portrays the dynamic between close friends who are comfortable enough with each other to joke about such things. This very much takes place in real life, and to censor the human aspect of these characters is to make them less relatable and less interesting.

Good grief, whatever happened to actual discussion, you know, one where you say 'I disagree on that because...' or 'have you considered this', or 'how does X example you give fit with y example?', rather than all this demanding evidence, telling others they are wrong and generally being dismissive, patronising and hostile?

Put the dictionary away Exalted, and actually chat and discuss.

rather than all this demanding evidence, telling others they are wrong and generally being dismissive, patronising and hostile?

It is difficult to be dismissive when there are no arguments worthy of consideration.