Would anyone be interested in a Feminist critique of The Big Bang Theory?

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Inspired by the Friends thread from years ago (was it by SOH?) I watched an episode of TBBT tonight and it genuinely repulsed me.

Howard is a creepy, pushy, sex pest.

Leonard is even worse though. He's the Ross from Friends style 'nice guy'. He's nasty, manipulative, possessive, and in the episode I watched earlier, lorded over and sneered at Penny when she forgot his birthday, then made a joke out of the fact that he'd read her journal, and massively invaded her privacy.

When I first watched TBBT I thought I enjoyed it, but the raging misogyny has put me off. Any other thoughts on it?

A bot based on Dwight?

I found it uncomfortable to watch.

I, too, cringed while watching that episode. The sight of a man suffering with poor self-esteem being dragged beneath his dignity by pretending to be romantically involved with a women for whom he has an affection was painful to bear. The sheer falsehood and deceptive aura of this act was reprehensible; exacerbated by his initiative to engage in a kiss with her. However, such a scenario could conceivably transpire in the real world; in many ways, it demonstrates our willingness to deceive our own family in an effort to appease them.

I really hope you talk like this in reality.

Fresh meat.. yes, I've seen a couple - it's good, but I spend half the episode cringing (a bit like the UK office)..

I shall try Girls though.

New Girl was on C4 wasn't it - rich girl turned poor meets worldly waitress... hmmmmm

Green Wing was good, and in a stereo-typed comedy way, I came across one with the tall, blond guy who often plays slightly thick characters where he was a midwife - oh, and another where he became a spy by mistake which were funny in a silly way.

I think this is the problem. I like silly comedy, I like thoughtful comedy which challenges stereotypes, but my lasting impression of BBT was of thoughtless, cheap laugh at stereo types comedy - trying too hard to be silly, but not hard enough to be thoughtful (like How I met your Mother - although that at least had sentimentality).

Perhaps I'll watch a couple of episodes and see if I can form a more coherent opinion.

Maybe instead of a feminist book club I should join a feminist media studies group :)

Yeah he is so into Penny that a couple of episodes earlier he was happily shagging Priya and a few episodes later he starts seriously dating her. Poor Leonard.

I do like BBT and can usually enjoy it for the geeky references and the knowing nods to the stereotypes. No one is ever going to look up to the male characters and want to be them -it's like The Inbetweeners in that respect. That doesn't mean it's not reinforcing misogyny in light entertainment.

Gilbert: nailed it

No, the one with the rich girl turned waitress is Two Broke Girls (which isn't too bad in feminist terms, eg most scenes are between the two main women, but isn't that funny!). new girl is the zoe deschanel one about flatmates.

Think I've watched too much trashy comedy!

Exalted, may I congratulate you on your magnificent mimicry of Sheldon were he ever to move into non physics critique? The tone is exactly right. I'd been wondering why your clauses jogged the memory. It's v impressive.

I enjoy BBT, or did enjoy the first two series, because all the stereotypes are played to, with wit and irony, excellent word play. It's multi layered.

One eg is, again, Mrs Cooper. One might think she was an unsophisticated fundamentalist. In fact, she's highly sophisticated as evidenced by her commentaries in Sheldon's early schooling and her manipulation of him to go back to CalTech after he has disappeared to live with her. She is clear that teaching creationism is the straw that will break the back if his resolve. It does. She is amused.

I think some men do look up to the characters on TBBT and that's one of the problems when it's reinforcing the "I'm a nerd but so nice so why don't HOT women like me and always choose jerks over me boohoo I do nice things for her so why doesn't she reward me for it" type nice guy thing. There'll be lonely boys/men who look up to fellow geeks getting the "hot" girl in the end and they'll completely miss the fact that Leonard is a twat and had to stalk her for years to get her.

It's the whole "rational arguments" bollocks isn't it. Because peoples lives, the discrimination they face, their lived experiences even their opinions are only valid if considered so by some higher authority i.e. a man. And here he is saying patriarchy doesn't exist...

I think the characters are drawn just the right side of cartoony grotesque to make us laugh at them rather than sympathise with the way they operate in their relationships, Barney. Not that I'm saying you're wrong, just that I see it differently.
Penny is the character that frequently punctures their nerdy self regard and that's become more prevalent through the seasons.

Ahhhhh - yes, single woman flatmate, two blokes. I think I saw the pilot of that, perhaps if I get desperate :D (I think I watch too much trash TV too - sometimes in absolute horrified fascination - I recently watched an entire season of 'Scorpion' on Netflix, because the plotlines were all so ridiculously fantastical - just to see what stupid problem/solution they were going to have next!)

Green Tomato - try Brooklyn 99? That's silly and funny, and not painfully sexist.

I don't watch TBBT anymore. I think it lost the central premise of why it was funny. The 4 men were nice when it started, weren't they? (Maybe not Howard) However the more interactions with women they had the meaner they become.

I've said before that I think it's almost impossible to write a truly feminist tv show or movie. I think it would be ruined by our cultural bias. Looking at you Jurassic World.

I actually love TBBT. I work with someone who is scarily like Sheldon in the sense that everything that comes out of his mouth would be true and make sense if he was the centre of the universe (a bit like Exalted's speeches on this thread). So at that level I find it very funny.

But I can't help but agree with all the rational comments here about the misogyny. Howard is just an L-plate rapist. It's horrifying. Leonard wants women to solve all his problems (and is more than a little creepy and possessive) and the way pretty much all the women are portrayed is quite negative. Yes they are depicted as intelligent but they are still responsible for the emotional well being and lives of the men. Poor Bernadette having to teach Howard how to do fucking housework. He's a rocket scientist ffs. Housework isn't. He can bloody well work it out for himself except of course he thinks it's Bernadette's responsibility and he's just there to help.

I did like the scenes between leonard and sheldon's mothers! Two fab actors playing the mothers.

Greentomato have you seen Gilmore Girls?

Telly addicts unite! MN telly addicts board is ofteb a good laugh.

I've said before that I think it's almost impossible to write a truly feminist tv show or movie. Joss Whedon gives it a good try. Doesn't always get it right but certainly on the side of the angels. Hayao Miyazaki as well.

Ah, but you are watching them from the side of not being a "nice guy". Me too though. We see them as cartoony. "Nice guys" see them as the same as them. They don't see that Leonard is only nice to Penny to have a shot at doing her rather than actually being a nice person. He is a "nice guy". "Nice guys" watching see a man following a woman round like a puppy, doing favours for her (just like they do) and then she overlooks him for a jerky muscle man instead (just like the women they follow around in their lives).

Duck, yes, brill scene.

The so called positive stereotypes for women in sitcoms have always felt patronising.

It's as if the scriptwriters have cobbled them together so that they can't be accused of being sexist and as a trade off for the male characters being centre stage.

The over the top competence often makes the female characters unlikeable especially when they constantly put the men down. The "bumbling idiot" trope for the male characters makes them loveable and just reinforces the idea that women are in charge of the emotional caretaking rushing around in shrill and neurotic fashion looking after the men children who can get on with being funny.

And of course they still have to be hot. Bernadette and Howard FGS? Penny and Leonard? And of course Amy, the one female character that is clever and non pretty, has to be a closet lesbian.

The positive stereotypes are sometimes the worst because they're the hardest to untangle.

I really hope you talk like this in reality.

Indeed, I do.

That doesn't mean it's not reinforcing misogyny in light entertainment.

By that logic, the show also reinforces misandry through its repeated denigration of the male characters and their involvement with gaming/sci-fi subculture.

I enjoy BBT, or did enjoy the first two series, because all the stereotypes are played to, with wit and irony, excellent word play. It's multi layered.

I concur. Its brand of humour is intelligent as well as entertaining.

The so called positive stereotypes for women in sitcoms have always felt patronising. It's as if the scriptwriters have cobbled them together so that they can't be accused of being sexist and as a trade off for the male characters being centre stage.

The absurdity of this statement baffles and amuses me in equal measure. Even when a show features numerous strong and admirable female characters, you still find a reason to be upset. Such is the extent of your hypersensitivity and bias that you have gone out of our way to interpret the situation in the most negative and cynical manner. In the process, you have distorted the intentions of the writers to fit in with overly simplified and ridiculous world view.

*[...] just reinforces the idea that women are in charge of the emotional caretaking rushing around in shrill and neurotic fashion looking after the men children who can get on with being funny."

What evidence is there of this in the show?

Exalted. You wanted someone to engage with you about the negative stereotypes relating to the male characters and I have. Will you respond to that?