women's issues, always remember men are victims too

[DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease]

Just frustrated with reading /hearing that men are victims too. Some people seem to only allow permission for issues like advice for 'women suffering from domestic violence' to be discussed if a prominent statement that men are also victims of domestic violence is made. It's infuriating, not because it's not true but because it's so pervasive - you can't write a blog giving specific advice for women in dv relationships without someone commenting, seemingly every time, that men are victims too. Also happens in discussions about rape.

Anyone else find this a common occurrence, I don't know the stats but the fact that men are victims too seems to occur more frequently in the discussions than the instances of men actually being the victim of the scenario? Does it irritate you?

Do you have a stock resort to help bring the conversation back to women without denying or disregarding that yes, bad things happen to men too?

It's strange and I don't really understand why these numbers are included in the stats for partner/ex partner violence - surely it should be counted as acquaintance.

It doesn't say how many of the women were killed by a "lover's spouse or emotional rival". I'm trawling through the Excel sheet but I should really go to bed...

File is downloadable here, anyway, if anyone else is interested. I have to say I have a love for the ONS' open access to documents. Always sobering but fascinating, too. There are lots of interesting bits in this table.

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime-and-sexual-offences--2012-13/rpt---chapter-2---homicide.html#tab-Circumstances-of-the-Homicides

I just read some of the comments on that article, FlorisApple

Sigh.

Interestingly despite all of the pleas that men find it much harder to speak to anybody, the table for whether or not a person had reported abuse shows that there actually isn't much difference at all between male and female victims reporting abuse. Men report less often, but the difference is not very big.

As people have said we got off our butts and set up homes. The first set up by Erin Pizzey. Which makes it interesting when you now consider her current position on domestic violence. She showed intelligence and understanding to set up Haven House yet as her views developed on reciprocal violence she has become a pariah. Yet can we believe she became brain dead overnight? I am not sure of my exact view because I was emotionally abused by my ex so I would be biased.

This is the latest year of data here. Interestingly they have been far more explicit about the relationship of male victims compared to female victims in this edition:
Partner/ex-partner includes the subcategories 'spouse, cohabiting partner, boyfriend/girlfriend, ex-spouse/ex-cohabiting partner / exboyfriend / girlfriend, adulterous relationship, lover’s spouse or “emotional rival”'.

All but one of the female partner/ex-partner homicide victims were killed by a male suspect, whereas among men, around a third of partner/ex-partner homicide were killed by a male suspect. The majority of these, 14 out of 21, were committed by the spouse of the victim’s lover or “emotional rival”.

Among other adult homicides, 95% of male and 89% of female victims aged 16 or over were killed by a male suspect

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_394478.pdf

Several people pointed out that there was also a race for prostate cancer, but this was totally ignored because they were hung up on the fact there was a thing for women and it was all so unfair on the poor men.

Men freely choose to not get the routine examinations for prostate cancer. To be honest, I wouldn't donate money for prostate cancer research - it seems wasteful, considering that many men don't even bother to get diagnosed.

Women dutifully have their vaginas prodded and breasts squeezed whenever they go to get a pill prescription. That's a whole different level of committment to cancer prevention there.

I am not sure of my exact view because I was emotionally abused by my ex so I would be biased.

I know a man who is in a financially abusive relationship. He could get out of it simply by getting off his ass and deciding that he wants to get out. He doesn't need a refuge because he owns a home, all he would have to do is to kick the woman out.

For men in abusive relationships, the most important thing is getting their emotions sorted out and have the will to get out. The risk to be killed after doing that approaches zero. (Except maybe for gay men)

"I know a man who is in a financially abusive relationship. He could get out of it simply by getting off his ass and deciding that he wants to get out. He doesn't need a refuge because he owns a home, all he would have to do is to kick the woman out.

For men in abusive relationships, the most important thing is getting their emotions sorted out and have the will to get out. The risk to be killed after doing that approaches zero. (Except maybe for gay men)"

so the only thing that keeps women in abusive relationships is the risk of being killed?

100% of government funding on DV is for women and women only and we are continually bombarded with posters and ads that say "stop violence against women" with a picture of a model with black and blue make-up on and sometimes a picture of a male model posing aggressively showing his fist to a woman and/or child.

So anyone would easily think only women are victims and only men are violent perps.

So yes, society does need continual reminding men can be victims too.

"I don't know the stats"

Until male victims are able to report violence against them without so much stigma we will never know the stats.

So anyone would easily think only women are victims and only men are violent perps

Unfortunately this is overwhelmingly the case. Most DV victims are women. Most DV perps are male.

Often - not always - male 'victims' have also been perpetrators. I work in DV. It's actually extremely common for a male abuser to subject his victim to years of psychological, physical emotional abuse, and she lashes out on one occasion (generally in self defence), he goes to the police and reports her for DV.

It's a very, very common abusers' trick - painting the victim as an abusive one.

But the violence committed against men is done by other men as well as women (and when women are violent the statistics show that the men in those relationships had also sometimes been violent) . The overwhelming amount of violence against women is committed by men. Which ever way you look at it, the problem is male violence.

No one is denying that men suffer from IPV. The point is that it's only ever used as a tool to admonish people who care about violence against women and girls. Where are the campaign groups marching in the streets to try and get funding for shelters for men? There are a variety of this sector organisations providing support to those men, where are their massive campaigns for funding?

I actually do care about men who suffer from domestic abuse, I'm married to a man, I have a son. But that doesn't mean it's OK for mens rights idiots to use male victims like this.

I think, as well as getting off our arses to get things set up, women are also far more likely to financially support women's charities than men are to support men's charities.

I specifically sought out women's charities to support because I think it's an area of high need. My DP complained about lack of support for men's charities and then admitted he primarily gives to animal charities.

And yes, I get very frustrated when men complain about breast cancer funding over prostate cancer funding when the main bloody issue is that they don't go to the doctors for available tests. Although - patriarchy, innit?

Do you realise biological (cis) women get prostrate cancer, apparently we have one.

My DP complained about lack of support for men's charities and then admitted he primarily gives to animal charities.

Sorry PAQ, are you telling me I have a prostate?! Every day's a school day...

@Mide7:

The reason why women who want to leave stay in abusive relationships is the fear of being killed, or other violence.
That's why women's refuges are so heavily protected.

Sure, many women stay because they cannot emotionally deal with leaving, but that's not the point where women's refuges help. You cannot get someone out of an abusive relationship when they're not willing to get out. (Okay, you theoretically can, but it would be illegal )

Men face the problem of not being emotionally able to leave, but not the problem of being in physical danger after doing so.

@Passive: I am reasonably sure I do not have a prostate. Or is this some verbal stunt, where something in the female body is called the same, despite having a different function?

I am pretty sure that if women have a prostate, it is not usually walnut-sized.

@vestalvirgin

"Men freely choose to not get the routine examinations for prostate cancer."

Are there any routine examinations for prostate cancer? I'd understood the only routine screening available for men was for aortic aneurysms at age 65.

There is no 'routine' testing programme for prostate cancer.

@evilkitten: It may be different in the UK, but I am reasonably sure the prostate exam by hand is offered as free choice from age 45 hereabouts.
And everyone gets the colon cancer prevention stuff.
(A relative of mine has had both, and he's by no means so obsessed with his health that he would pay for it, but willing enough to do something if the GP suggests it and it's for free.)

However, many people choose not to do it because they don't want a stranger's fingers in their rectum or a whole camera up their colon.

Understandable, but men shouldn't complain about not getting as much prevention as women.

I suspect it's more likely that many men choose not to do it because it isn't something that's being offered or even suggested to them.

Men in my family were offered it due to being higher risk and only 1 went for it (my DF because DM made him). Hopefully the rest won't be killed by stubbornness/embarrassment but I can't help but think they're being extraordinarily stupid to take the risk

I suspect it's more likely that many men choose not to do it because it isn't something that's being offered or even suggested to them.

Well, there we are again: Men's bodies are not pathologized as much as women's bodies are, so there is less opportunity to suggest it. The relative I mentioned is of the sickly sort, so sees a GP more often than most men.

For any man who is seriously concerned about his cancer risk, a quick google search would reveal everything he can get for free.

The fact that the men who complained about breast cancer awareness didn't even know what was done about prostate cancer (and didn't listen when it was mentioned) indicates that the interest isn't really there, unless one can complain that women get something.

this has all reminded me of a conversation years ago when a friend of DP's was moaning to me about Greenham Common
him-oh yes, you're all about peace unless you're a man then you can just fuck off (etc etc)
me- oh- so you object to the siting of cruise missiles in the UK? you want to do something about it? that's great- have you thought about supporting the mixed peace camp at Molesworth?
him- silence (thinks- Molesworth? huh? cruise missiles? eh?)

am also sure I do not have a prostate
otoh, men do have breasts and can get breast cancer, am sure this has been flagged up on race for life