Germaine Greer

[IamTheWhoreofBabylon]

i never post here but I'm watching Germaine Greer on newsnight
Crazy, the woman is not allowed to discuss feminist issues without being forced to discuss transgender issues
Disclaimer- I really like GG
Am I reading this correctly? Why does she have to fight for a different groups issues

I think that as Huge says, it's a bit dishonest to accuse a feminist of suggesting that by focussing on the physical, that a woman who's had her breasts/uterus removed is no-longer a woman, or that a woman who doesn't do hair and makeup is somehow not a woman.

It seems to me that that's the opposite of feminist reasoning, but skirting close to trans reasoning (that a man without a penis can be a woman, or that a man who looks/dresses as a woman is a woman)

Or perhaps that's just sour grapes on my part - I have all the relevant bits, I've had all the treatment/assumptions made about me, yet by trans reasoning I'm not a woman, as I don't feel like one.

I hope this all blows over soon. I have a fairly feminine son, and I don't want him to think he needs to be anything other than he is in order to be acceptable by society.

I actually think things are changing. The guardian recently has allowed some pretty open debates to take place on these issues, given the support being shown for Germaine Greer and the rejection of no platforming on freedom of speech grounds. I think as one of you said on another thread I was reading, the best thing that can happen is that transactivists will have to explain their position and people will see how flimsy and ridiculous it is. It was great for them when all debate could be shut down completely.

Isn't that weirdBuffya man and woman say the same thing, yet the woman is harassed and abused for it.Huh.

And by people who identify as women, too. I can't really square this one. They reserve the right to make their opinions known as women, but just can't tolerate other women speaking out. Men can say what they like though.

So, they want to be recognised as women on exactly the same terms as born women, but with the right to discuss matters of moment with the big boys, which born women shouldn't have.

I think I am growing tired of these expectations of what women need to do to avoid harassment even outside hell holes like Saudi and Afghanistan.

I know the thread has moved on since the bit where "male" and "female" brains where discussed, but I came across this yesterday:

Article about how analysis of meta data finds no differences between male and female brains

People who incite others to commit crimes, should absolutely not be given a platform. Suggesting that encouraging stupid or misguided people to rape or strap explosives to themselves and kill is in any way similar to what Greer was going to speak about is fatuous.

I saw that too slaggy somehow, I fear that the tiny study that showed there were brain sex differences is going to be given more credence by those who desperately need it to be true in order to perpetuate their delusions.

you often find that the differences are minimal.

The trans community will still latch on to the 'minimal' statement and say it's still inconclusive.

Several years ago, when Julia Gillard was prime minister in Australia and Quentin Bryce was Gov General, there was a huge amount of gendered abuse thrown around by men in power. Gillard was a 'barren atheist' a 'lying bitch' , a 'witch' etc.

A well know old, white, right wing, male shock jock made a declaration on air one day that women were "destroying the joint!" (the joint being, Australia).

Soon after, a Facebook page was started. It was called Destroy the Joint and its purpose was " 'for people who are sick of the sexism dished out to women in Australia, whether they be our first female Prime Minister or any other woman'.

It's brilliant. They keep us up to date with violence against women stats, call out public identities on gender based nonsense etc. They are a well run and articulate group and have over 70,000 followers.

Yesterday I was dismayed to see they had shared a well written satirical article, basically thumbing it's nose at the ridiculous standards placed on women, just for being women.

I wasn't dismayed at the article. I was dismayed at DtJ for describing it as cis-centric and suggesting it's followers broaden the scope and suggest how people who identify as women could be included in the discourse.

This shit is creeping its way into every mainstream womenss group there is. Soon I fear that those of us who are rejecting (or even just questioning) the trans narrative will be on the fringes. Just a bunch of bigoted TERFs.

"This shit is creeping its way into every mainstream womenss group there is."

It's depressing. About 90% of the comments on Cardiff Feminist Network's FB page is about trans issues. Anyone who disagrees is pilloried as the group is trans inclusive. The trans inclusivity trumps anything else. I don't necessarily disagree with them, but they are impossible to debate with.

Gwen that is really nuts. Have they not grasped the basic tenet of FEMINism? Trans people are a tiny minority, their issues are not the same as those of women, and so how has feminism come to this? I am honestly baffled by it. One would think that women had nothing else to fight for.

mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SR2IN20151103?utm_source=Facebook

Changes in USA reported today.

I understand that changes do need to be addressed, but it does feel like women are being brushed to the side with a 'shh! These people are more important than you.'

So take for example of the Twitter campaign that was used to highlight issues surrounding access to menstral products in the third world, that was deemed transexclusory if I remember. The changing of language within maternity documents in America where it's now pregnant indivduals and not women anymore. The case of the swimming pool changing rooms that was brought up a while back with the parents who complained that their daughters had been kicked out of the changing rooms due to the presence of one older transgendered female.

There doesn't seem to be a common sense measured approach here. It makes me angry, it makes me see red that one group trumps another. That shouldn't happen. These things should be thought about, and looked at properly.

Personally, I don't care if a transgendered individual uses the same bathroom as me. But on the issue of safe spaces, and issues such as the Twitter campaign and similar. It makes me angry and displeased that we can't even talk about such issues without getting shut down. How are we supposed to get anywhere if we don't talk about these things?

It's not helpful that the hope we had in the WEP is not supporting women in prison from Tara.

Sorry. Howtorebuild, what?

I'm interested in WEP. They are not supporting women in prison? Or are they not supporting a transgender woman being in a women's prison?

mobile.twitter.com/WEP_UK/tweets look at the retweet on 27 Oct.

They supported a transgender woman being put in a woman's prison therefore they are not supporting or protecting the women already in the prison.
They retweeted the petition.

Ah ok thanku.

I just had a look at mobile.twitter.com/catherine_mayer/tweets Catherine Mayers. Twitter and she retweeted a link to this. www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2015/10/what-row-over-banning-germaine-greer-really-about

Trans activists consistently challenge feminists over trans issues rather than other groups. It is pretty much impossible to go into any feminist space now without trans activists wanting it to be about them.

How arrogant !
Thank God we have women like GG around - somebody who isn't content to sit back and let people 're-write history and try to dictate to us who we are and what makes us who we are.

'somebody who isn't content to sit back and let people 're-write history and try to dictate to us who we are and what makes us who we are.'

Hopefully this is MN at peak trans now and we can have discussions like we have the last week without constant derailing by 'define this' 'so you're happy with the suicide stats' and 'but my feelings!'

We all have feelings, we're all valid, no ones ever pussy-footed around women and once again there's a group expecting us to bend over to accommodate and validate them.

Tribble, I wonder if there was ever another campaign like...oh...let's say prostate cancer awareness...that was deemed transexclusionary?

Hopefully this is MN at peak trans now and we can have discussions like we have the last week without constant derailing by 'define this' 'so you're happy with the suicide stats' and 'but my feelings!

That would be lovely. I hope women everywhere reach "peak trans." Enough bs.

Gwenhwyfar - I had to leave Cardiff feminist network for that very reason. It's depressing

That's very disappointing about the WEP. I've joined and I was feeling very very hopeful that they could just get some real traction on feminist issues without constant derailment...but...sigh.

I am at peak trans and beyond. I just want women at the centre of my feminism and I don't want us all to squander every last bit of energy and resources we have quibbling over who's in and who's out. It shouldn't be this hard. You don't get Lib Dems muscling into meetings of the Labour Party and demanding they be more centrist to accommodate them. You'd tell them (politely or otherwise) that it was clear you didn't share goals, then wish them well and send them off.

I am relieved I didn't join the WEP, now.