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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist Pub XX - may the summer rains wash the patriarchy down the plughole

983 replies

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 07/08/2015 08:17

Ooh ooh! Do I get to start it?

Wine and cake all round. And a celebratory burst on the patriarchy-blasting cannon!

Old pub here

OP posts:
slugseatlettuce · 11/10/2015 12:32

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slightlyglitterpaned · 11/10/2015 18:29

Funny how those same men are perfectly capable of organising a meticulously planned stag do.

FreshwaterSelkie · 12/10/2015 09:42

Urgh, I hate the organising assumption too. And if you refuse or make a point that it's never men doing it, then you're a trouble-maker, or horror of horrors, Not A Team Player. Does not apply to men who refuse to organise stuff, of course, if they were even asked so as to be put in a position to have to refuse at all.

On a brighter note, I was listening to some podcasts over the weekend and I've been catching up on the In Our Time history series, which I can unreservedly recommend if you haven't come across it before. It's a sort of panel discussion on chosen topics, chaired by Melvyn Bragg. What I've found particularly enjoyable is the amount of predominantly or wholly female panels, and it struck me how unusual that is for a start, when a lot of panel shows or shows that need to wheel out experts so often seem to be male dominated. More than that, MB actually listens when women talk, he doesn't talk over or interrupt or cut them off or assume he knows more than them. He seems genuinely interested in listening to and learning from women. Of course, he's a very skilled and experienced broadcaster, and this shows whoever he's talking to, but he just struck me as being unusually good at interviewing women. I don't know much about him as person, so please forgive me if he's known to be a raging MCP in his private life Grin

The contrast was clear when I listened next to the News Quiz which, much as I like it, was, as usual, replete with men talking over women, point-scoring and nicking their jokes.

EBearhug · 12/10/2015 20:08

I love In Our Time, and it's one of the main reasons I really resent my 9am Thursday meeting... MB does sometimes talk over people, usually mathematicians & scientists when he's not quite following. The Life Scientific is very good, too, and are committed to having 50% women interviewees.

LauraMipsum · 12/10/2015 22:54

Started typing but my post can be condensed into this:

[insert lengthy rant about endemic systemic sexism here]

[scream]

Mine's a double gin and tonic or four, a fistful of illicit B&H and a bag of chips please.

FreshwaterSelkie · 13/10/2015 07:38

Ah, it's specifically the history ones I've been listening to, maybe he finds them easier to follow?! I was listening to one about Sparta which had two women and a man on the panel and the man was a horror, interjecting to correct the women all the time and generally coming off as prissy and superior, whereas the women came off as super intelligent, knowledgeable and passionate. Bragg at one point said to him "well, that's what you're here for", suggesting he very well understands the dynamic? Which in my experience, makes him unusual among men...

NeverEverAnythingEver · 13/10/2015 09:53

I don't know The Life Scientific. What is it?

I don't listen to IoT too much these days but remember being impressed at the discussions on all kinds of subject.

slugseatlettuce · 13/10/2015 13:31

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EBearhug · 13/10/2015 23:28

I don't know The Life Scientific. What is it?
R4 9am Tuesdays. New series started this week. Half an hour of Jim Al-Khalili talking to a scientist about their life in science - how they got interested in science, how they progressed through their careers.

I think, like IoT, they're all available as podcasts forever more.

EElisavetaOfBelsornia · 14/10/2015 23:09

Haven't been in the pub for a while, but feeling the need for strong liquor after taking an entirely unexpected pasting on another forum about rad fems and trans issues. Someone asked for an explanation of the issues/arguments, I gave an outline as I understand it, and then got called nasty, Tory Shock, prejudiced, hateful, an arsehole, a dick, and not a feminist. It was utterly uncalled for, I was being informative, unemotive and as reasonable as a veritable Buffy. I'm a bit shaken by it tbh - one poster said he thought VAWG was a reasonable price to pay for not impeding the rights of trans people to access female spaces. Double whisky please, and then pass the cannon.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 15/10/2015 09:01

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NiNoKuni · 15/10/2015 09:08

one poster said he thought VAWG was a reasonable price to pay for not impeding the rights of trans people to access female spaces

Sheesh.

[quadruple whisky]

slugseatlettuce · 15/10/2015 09:27

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NeverEverAnythingEver · 15/10/2015 09:38

Hang on, he thought VAWG was a reasonable price to pay, did he? Who's paying the price? Not him? I thought not. Sadly this is quite common. In big and small ways. Like, let's not add too much workload on us (men) to make sure that the work environment is fair to women. That kind of thing. These days I'm surprised when I don't see it... >

EElisavetaOfBelsornia · 15/10/2015 17:12

Thanks everyone - yes Buffy I think I have got used to rational debate here, and forgot how hard of thinking lots of people can be. I actually think I became more RadFem as a result of the debate Smile. Gratifyingly I logged in again today and several women posters are challenging the mansplainers and those unconscious of their privilege. The flowers (and whisky) are much appreciated.

RoseDeGambrinus · 16/10/2015 22:02

Hello, as an occasional lurker in the pub can I share something that has been amusing me this Friday evening? @manwhohasitall on Twitter

TODAY’S QUESTION: Can curvy dads ever be TRULY happy?

To all men with an opinion. Don’t be AFRAID to speak up! It’s OKAY to be a man and have an opinion. Some women actually find it attractive

ALL MEN! Know your face shape to radiate confidence in the colours & styles that suit YOU as an individual. Feel amazing

TODAY’S QUESTION: How do you handle a gentleman boss?

Looking for a job? Don’t forget that many of the skills you learn as a dad are useful in a career setting.

ALL MEN! 7 ways you have been eating avocados all wrong & 6 ways you have been washing your penis wrong.

slightlyglitterpaned · 17/10/2015 03:26

@manwhohasitall is great Grin

INickedAName · 21/10/2015 15:19

Hello:)

I hope everyone is well. I've got a lot if catching up to do, I've not been on MN as much as my concentration is poor, Twitter is the best I can manage..

I still don't have the results from my breast surgery, until they tell me it's certainly cysts it's looming at the back of my mind. I had an app last week and it was a different doctor, until then I'd been healing well, pain was bearable and the breast itself looked back to normal, the new doctor came out and ran through the various stuff I've had and to be honest stemmed pissed off, said I'd need to come back next week and just seemed like he had better things to do, they were running almost two hours behind but still, that wasn't my fault... Anyway when he examined my breast he really hurt me, to the point I almost shot off the bed, he rolled his eyes and left, to which the nurse asked me if I was ok and seemed angry at him, I was half naked and just wanted to get dressed and out of there, so said I'm fine, if I didn't have SIL waiting outside I'd have gone into the toilets to cry.
My boob has been in agony since, it hurts more now than it did after the OP and has gone hard. Im Just really fed up of being in pain. I'm back tomorrow and if it's him again I don't think I can let him examine me again, the slightest touch has me wincing so if he grabs like he did last time I think I'll pass out. I really hope it's my usual consultant, she was lovely and I'll be mentioning last week to her. Would I be unreasonable that if it's him, to ask for SIL to come in?

Elendon · 21/10/2015 19:57

It would not be unreasonable for you to ask for SIL to go in with you. You might want to have a word with the nurse beforehand about the tenderness and that, if possible, an extremely gentle approach be made.

Good luck x

NeverEverAnythingEver · 21/10/2015 20:09

INicked Very sorry to hear that you are in pain. Sad I think you should have a word with the nurse too. And get SIL to sit with you too.

Good luck. Flowers

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/10/2015 21:19

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EBearhug · 21/10/2015 21:57

Oh INicked, that's horrible. Do you feel up to giving them feedback? They need to know how it feels, anyway. I hope tomorrow goes far better.

PlaysWellWithOthers · 22/10/2015 00:03

Oh, INicked, I'm so sorry to hear that.

I would imagine that any surgeon worth their salt would be happy for you to have your SiL there with you. The male doctor sounds like an arse, to be honest, and, if your breast is still tender when you go back, I would ask the doctor (hopefully the nice one) to have a proper look at things, just to make sure everything's healing as it should.

Hope you get the results back very soon Flowers

INickedAName · 22/10/2015 17:23

Thank you for the messages.

It was the lovely doctor and I mentioned about last week, she apologised on his behalf, said she would speak to him personally and gave me info on how to make a formal complaint. I dont think I'll go down that route as it's another thing to worry about, but lovely doctor said to think on it. Part of me keeps making excuses for him, they were running massively behind, he may have rushed, my breast looked fully healed so maybe he thought it was fine and I'd feel bad getting someone in trouble who was just having a bad day. I'm a wimp I know.

Results. Of the three lumps they removed, two were nothing to worry about, the third is lobular carcanome (sp), she explained that it was found totally by chanceas they were removing the lump I'd reported, this third one didn't show on the mammogram, that it doesn't mean I have cancer but is an indicator that I'm more likely to develop, or makes me higher risk so they want me to go for an MRI scan to see if there's anything else to worry about, and then will take things from there. I cannt have the MRI until my breast settle down from the surgery and won't get results until December. Seems forever away.

NeverEverAnythingEver · 22/10/2015 19:43

INicked Glad it's not that doctor again this time. Fingers crossed for you. Flowers