Is feminism a left-wing thing?

[HirplesWithHaggis]

Inspired by a comment (is it the done thing to name the poster? I assume not, but it would be giving credit for inspiration/thought-inducing rather than slagging her) on the AI thread, that she is not a left-wing feminist; fair enough, we all self-define.

But I had kind of always rather assumed it was/is, perhaps because I've been vaguely lefty and always feminist (apart from moments here when I've been told that I'm not a feminist because I'm not radfem) for about 40 years now. Am I totally out of date?

Oooo-kaayy.

Rivers. Yes rivers are touted as the environmental success story. Actually, as usual, "it's a bit more complicated than that", because, as usual, UK figures are highly unreliable and twisted around for political ends. Have a look at www.ukrivers.net/state.html unfortunately it looks like that hasn't been updated for a while, which is a shame because I'm sure I saw something recently about how much worse the rivers have got over the last few years.

I shouldn't have to point out that it is the only environmental success story either. Heard of climate change? Heard of the number of flora/ fauna currently being made extinct - we're in the middle of one of the big extinction events to hit the planet? Ecosystems around the planet being destroyed for fracking, oil drilling, mining - and the effects poisoning the local environment for years, centuries after because no one will pay to clean up even if we knew how - palm oil plantations, cattle ranches to fulfill the endless requirement for McDonald burgers, fisheries collapsing because we never know when to stop, bee populations falling due to chemical use? How about the motor car? The aeroplane? What about the EU threatening to fine Britain for its repeated refusal to clean up its air quality? The whatsit oil spills in the gulf of mexico? The hole in the ozone layer is still in existence. I really don't know how anyone can claim the world is ecologically better than it was 100-200 years ago.

"Capitalism drives improvements in production and manufacturing etc etc". Yeah right. It has also driven the creation of mass consumerism, which is consuming planetary resources. Try watching the 'Century of the Self' which charts how deliberately mass consumerism was started and set up to make wealth for factory owners. freedocumentaries.org/documentary/bbc-the-century-of-the-self-happiness-machines-season-1-episode-1 As soon as there is any conflict between the needs of economic growth and the needs of the environment, huge concerns step in to ensure the continuation of growth. They're doing it right now - we're told repeatedly in the media how absolutely essential it is to not just have economic stability, but to carry on growing forever. We're repeatedly told that there is no alternative to 'trickle down' and that everything is inexorable and unstoppable because otherwise we'll all be back in the stone age just so that the elite can hold on to their vastly unequal share of the wealth. What we need is to bring ourselves back into balance with the finite resources available and find a way of sustaining the best lifestyle we can all get within the best lifestyle that the planet can afford. Unfortunately there is only so much to go round: I would rather find a new way that allows us all to share more equitably.

Another category of environmental disaster I just thought of - the amount of ecological damage caused by alien species which we're shipping around the globe (and have been doing for some time, viz rabbits in Australia). This is all just what comes to mind immediately, if you go look at the greenpeace, friends of the earth, soil association, wwf websites (for example) I imagine there'll be loads more. I've only just started picking environmental news back up again after a decade spent ignoring it as far too bloody depressing.

Ooh, what about the death of the Caspian Sea, google the images of it. And the droughts in California and Australia, and salinization in Australia. And the number of rivers around the world (including in California) which now have barely any water reaching the sea in some years due to poor management and international inability to cooperate.

Which neatly illustrates the fact that the way we damage the environment comes back and hits us too. We're not immune, we are a part of the world, we need to sustain it so that it can continue to sustain us.

I'll stop now shall I.

except that it looks like I really meant the Aral sea, not the Caspian. Sorry.

Way to get carried away and lose the plot...

Capitalism v Communism (which was a very corrupted version of Marxism) is a very simplistic distinction, and pretty irrelevant nowadays. Neither are good for people or planet. We need something new.

I never said capitalism was perfect, I said it was the best way we have. Mass consumerism, or wanting more things, such as t'interweb we are using is wanted by people. You cannot blame a nebulous all powerful 'other' for the behaviour of the masses. Again, that is the Left's view, the people are brainwashed/stupid and unable to do what is right for themselves, so I will tell them what is right. Lenin created the revolution in Russia because the working classes could not be trusted to do it right.
If you think there is a third way, then please let us know what it is. But remember, turkeys do often vote for Christmas because it is a long way away and it seems better today.