My husband, the working dad

[TravellingToad]

Would I be unreasonable to start referring to all fathers who work as "working dads"?

I'm a business women, earn 6 figures, manage employees and have 2 children. Yet I just get reduced to "working mum". My husband who also works has NEVER been called a working dad.

It irritates me a lot, possibly unreasonably but I bristle every time someone says it purely because it just seems like another phrase that doesn't get applied equally across the sexes. To my ear it sounds like "women driver" or in a daily mail article "Grandma, 65, killed" whereas they would say "Man, 65, killed"

Does this get on anyone elses goat?

Your things are way better than mine

OP I completely agree. My husband and I both have senior professional jobs. When I returned FT from mat leave, a surprising number of people said "aw, you're very brave doing FT/don't you want to drop to 4 days/wouldn't they let you got part time/goodness how will you cope with the workload and travel" with sympathetic head tilt. Guess how many times Dh has been asked any of that? Never! Oh and the travel is normally a night away 2 or 3 times a year whilst DH is abroad at least once a month.

On Monday our nanny needed the day off. DH took the day off this time -I'd also covered the last few days off needed and his diary worked better that day than mine. People practically burst into rounds of applause at what a marvellous father he was for looking after his own child for the day.

Nolim - when my friend had her baby I asked her husband whether he'd be going back to work after paternity leave, and would it be part time? He gave me a VERY funny look. :o

askingforapal i love that. might have to steal it and start asking men that... the problem is I guess that people thing we have a bee in our bonnet or are making a mountain out of a mole hill. They don't understand that it's a million little things that all add up!

I think “working mum” does not carry the same meaning as “working dad”. I think “working mum” implies “she is a mum and she leaves her children to go to work whereby “working dad” means he brings home the money and is so great that he finds some time to spend with his kids. People might think otherwise but from the previous posts it seems that many agree that "working mum" has more negative weight to it than "working dad" in the general society.

I don’t think the question is whether “working dad” should be used more since it does not carry the same meaning it might not necessarily contribute to more equality.

When I did my research on stay at home dads as undergrad I came across many instances where men were asked similarly stupid questions from people: i.e. father shopping in a supermarket on Saturday afternoon with his child gets asked “aaaahhh, you are babysitting today?” To which he responds, no, this is my child and I look after her/him.

It appears there are plenty of parents out there who believe in equality in parenting responsibilities and it is up to us to challenge the stereotypes of others with smart answers to stupid questions. I bet that lady in the supermarket will stop asking such a silly question if she gets a response like what BitOutOfPractice said.

BTW just realized how long the thread is- the answer was "with their other, equally competent parent" when asked where is your child today.

excellent thread!

Much to my shame I have actually referred to myself as babysitting DD when my DH had to go to the dentist one evening.

TravellingToad - please do it. You say "people think we have a bee in our bonnet or are making a mountain out of a mole hill". Well we do have a bee in our bonnet, as it happens. But the plain fact is we are asking a perfectly legitimate question. The fact that it feels cheeky to ask is entirely symptomatic of the problem here! Why is it normal to ask a woman, but not to ask a man the same thing, especially now there is shared parental leave?

The more men get asked stuff like "Who's looking after the kids today?" or "How do you manage being a doctor when your kids are so small?" the more things will shift to an understanding that men are just as responsible for their children as women are.

I remember thinking a few years ago that all the main party leaders were men with children under school age. Imagine if they had all been women with equivalent children - how often would they be asked about it?! But it almost never came up.

DH and I work in the same industry and people in this industry can easily guess that I must make about 2-3 times his salary. They still ask me if work didn't allow me to go part time, and not him.

I agree it works the other way as well - nobody has asked me if I'm giving dad a day off, when I'm out with DC.

I completely agree.
I was reading a report about my daughter recently and, on the bit about her childminder, it said "DD is looked after by X whilst mum works full time".

I was very , probably being oversensitive, but DAD WORKS TOO!!!

Don't even get me started on being referred to as "mum". "And does mum know about this?", "Perhaps we can get mum to do that". "Perhaps mum forgot to get you this". All said while you are there.

Hear hear, Copper. I had it from a bloody midwife yesterday, talking to the other midwife in my appointment about me - so not even referring to my relationship with a child who was actually present. I was the patient, whose name was right in front of them, but my existence was reduced to my future relationship with the foetus I'm carrying.

Though the other day I had another most unpleasant experience - Secondary school visit with DS1, the usher (another secondary school child, probably about a year older than DS1) handing me things and telling me that these were things my child may find useful, all with DS1 standing right next to me. Most peculiar.

Whirlpool thanks for the facebook link - it's great.

Including this - the scales fell from my eyes as I read it!

Performance bias occurs when people who are part of dominant groups, such as whites or men, are judged by their expected potential, while those who are part of less dominant groups such as people of color or women are judged by their proven accomplishments.

(Derail: Now FB thinks I want to buy diamonds!)

I completely agree OP. I've always believed that a crucial part of achieving greater gender equality is change to gender roles of men and perceptions of their place within the family structure. As they said back in the 60s, 'the personal is the political'. Family structures are crucial in challenging gender inequality from the grassroots up. This involves a lot of psychological change for men. I think change is coming slowly, but men who choose to take on an equal or more share of childbearing suffer from discrimination. My DH is a SAHD, but has received all sorts of 'ain't you a man' comments. He has felt quite isolated by having no other peers to gain support. I certainly feel that my DH is beating the brunt of challenging gender stereotypes.

Don't get me started on 'Babysitting'

Many random people over the years: 'Is DH babysitting while you're out?'

Me 'Err no, he's only got our DC '

'Well yes, that's what I meant is he babysitting the DC'

Me' WTF! They're his kids!'

When has a women EVER been asked if SHES babysitting while her DH is down the pub? None, zero, zilch,nada.

Thankfully it used to boil DHs piss too

Ooh I feel better after that! They're 13 & 15 now but mil still says it

Yes for years I've asked the same question of men - will they be caring for the child or their wife or using a nanny/nursery or whatever. We just have to keep on and on at stopping sexism. It's pernicious and all around us.
My chidlren's father used to find it hard to leave school before 6pm whereas female teachers with chidlren were let off earlier even though he was the lower earner and my career came first and I earned a lot more. In fact when he once asked for a pay rise the head said I earned too much for him to get it!

I never assume men aren't responsible for children. When I work with men with young children and a call might be going on late I always make sure that is going to work for their childcare arrangements as so many men these days have wives in busy high paid jobs.

6 years down the line (6 years after having my baby) I agree that "working mum" is really irritating but when I first went back to work I didn't mind it.
Thing is, the situation for my DH was: met our DD when she was born, spent 2 weeks paternity leave at home with us and then went back to work. Situation for me: spent 9 months with our DD inside my body, then spent 12 months on maternity leave with her. The first time I ever left her was for a settling in session for childcare so I could go back to work. I was still breastfeeding her when I went back to work.
So being a "working mum" was a really big deal for me (being apart from someone I had spent the last 21 months with, dealing with engorged breasts and expressing milk at work) when being a "working dad" wasn't really any different from being a "working man" for my DH when he first went back to work.
But yes I think with older children it is irritating to be called a "working mum" when your DH isn't called a "working dad".

Also this goes to crimes as well, often its mother does x but for the man their status as a father isnt used.

If anyone I work with (I'm a doctor) asks me who is looking after dd, I just say I left her at home watching CBeebies. People frequently ask me that on nights out as well.

Something really fucked me off the other day - went to meeting at dd's new primary school with exp. There was a lady trying to recruit for the PTA. She marched straight up to me and ignored exp. I said I probably wouldn't be interested as I was too busy. She left us and moved onto another female...

I agree OP and also agree that we should now have 'Men's Football' and 'Women's Football'.

The fact that it is currently 'Football' and 'Women's Football' implies that football is by default, a mans sport and that women are 'permitted' to play.

I regularly ask men at work if they are going PT when their baby arrives. They always say either 'Oh, I need to work full time to provide for the family' or 'My wife earns more than me so we can afford for her to earn less and she wants to work PT' . Whoever earns most it's always the man who wangles working FT.

DH worked PT until recently, he said women at work were fine with it but other men definitely had a problem with it, and even more of a problem when he had to leave work because of a sick child (we take turns). I think it's pretty hard for a man to stand up to social pressure, I always tell DH that he'll be having a massive effect on all the children who see him doing the drop offs and pick ups and taking the kids to birthday parties etc etc. I wouldn't have had children with anyone else.

I have just been viewing the fb training videos, they are excellent. I would love to get them shown at my workplace although now sure how. Thanks to the pp who linked the page.