Its all one big conspiracy

[yazz21]

Its only after all the transgender threads on here recently, that I've thought about feminism, and started looking into things. The more I read, the more I learn, the more shocked I am.

Its just like one massive conspiracy that I never saw. Now my eyes have been opened to it, I can't stop seeing it. (Not that I'd want to.) I see everything around me so differently. Just little things that all add up to keeping women subordinate.I never realised how much my behaviour, thoughts and actions is not innate, but things I've learned through socialisation.

I really wish I'd seen it all earlier, but for some reason I had this notion that feminism was just men hating women who were probably hairy and/or lesbians I wonder who benefitted from me thinking that.

I'm not sure what my point is really, but I feel really angry on behalf of women and really want to do something about it. However there are no feminist groups/meetings in my area, and I'm not well read enough to start one. Any other angry womenn here? Also if anyone could reccomend some books, so I can further my understanding. I would be really grateful.

Yy Lurcio, exactly that.

No one gives a shit whether someone shaves their legs, or performs whatever other Patriarchy approved regimen as long as it isn't actively harming other women, but suggesting that feminists

a) shouldn't be allowed to talk about it unless they wish to be accused of overthinking or navel gazing and

b) the lovely one where women who choose not to conform to society's arbitrary expectations of them are in some way dirty makes the accuser look pretty ridiculous and reactionary.

Discussing things as part of a class analysis isn't personal, unless you're the only member of that class ever, and no one is.

Someone put this link up on mumsnet a few weeks ago and I'm still finding it funny www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2014/07/new-boys-block-your-guide-kings-downing-street-catwalk

The concept of overthinking is a particular problem for Britain I think. One of our more adorable cultural traits is an insidious dislike of thinking and education.

Given the rumours about what the awful Gideon is planning, education is only going to be for the rich in England now anyway.

Kilt hose come with garters still btw - dp's are elastic with decorative ribbons that show beneath the folded top of the sock

Oh Buffy over-thinking isn't intended as an insult and I don't think you took it that way.

So what does"over thinking" mean then?

So, how do these points relate to the conspiracy in the OP? Is there one? Is it deliberate and malicious? Who conducts it, on who's behalf, and who benefits?

Buffy No insult was intended. You were looking at the poster's comments from a wider analysis. I was looking at it from a specific practical view. The poster hasn't returned.

Yops I agree your question is , as far as I'm concerned unresolved.

What does over thinking mean?

Yes, oh learned one. Considered. The title of the OP is rather at odds with the phrase 'like', and indeed the word like has taken on a whole new meaning in recent years, and is indeed often completely superfluous when used in sentence construction, particularly amongst the younger generation.

But nevertheless, the valid point has been made (not by me) that there is often something bigger than individual choice going on with the decisions you have been discussing. Would you disagree? I was merely ruminating as to the source and purpose of what, on the surface, might seem trivial decisions - to shave or not to shave, for example. Do these pressures have a use?

I detect that this question may have irked some - in which case, you are free to ignore. And no-one is being hectored, least of all the OP herself. It was a general question to all posters.

Well - in our times, the seemingly trivial things are literally created by small groups of people plotting to undermine our self-esteem. I worked in fashion & marketing, remember? Fear of body odour was invented to create a new market. Ditto body-hair fear. And fat fear. And a huge amount of other stuff; huge.

Before becoming a participant in these evil machinations, I studied them at uni. It's all quite deliberate. Early on the marketers were pretty blunt about what they were doing - they reflect this sometimes in Mad Men - and now we use the flowery language of aspiration, woven into a science with terminology borrowed from sociology and data manufactured from real people's opinions. This was my specialism; I'm very good at it.

Here's a curious exercise. If you make a note of all the products people buy to enhance their bodies (or conform to peer pressure, depending on your viewpoint,) and trace ownership all the way up the money tree, you end up with five corporations. I did this about five years ago, and all the CEOs were men. I believe one is a woman now. The top-level board executives of these corps are overwhelmingly men, and they are all 0.1%-ers. There is an actual conspiracy - it's a little bit loose and fairly freeform, but it's there. People stand to lose billions if we stop self-policing en masse. Also, of course, millions of minions lose their jobs.

It's the same with any area of commerce you choose to examine - and it's getting tighter. Independent little producers rarely survive outside the money chains and, if they do, the system finds ways to kill them off or absorb them.

I need to stress here that I'm not anti-capitalism But I do wish people would look at this stuff more often, and think about the butterfly effects of all their individual 'choices'.

"Fear of body odour was invented to create a new market. Ditto body-hair fear. And fat fear."

I have been abused more roundly when I have said this than under practically any other circumstances. The depiction of women's bodies as out of control, hairy and smelly and needing to be brought into line by products.......

Did you know this, by the way?

The City of London is the only part of Britain over which parliament has no authority. In one respect at least the Corporation acts as the superior body: it imposes on the House of Commons a figure called the remembrancer: an official lobbyist who sits behind the Speaker’s chair and ensures that, whatever our elected representatives might think, the City’s rights and privileges are protected.

Guardian
Scriptonite

It's all very interesting imo, and one of the reasons why we are not free agents. We're just encouraged to think we are! I do believe this is intimately connected with gender politics; I'm not the person to analyse that in full depth, however.

You can find the marketing histories, Bert, if you need to Sorry, my student days were so long ago that I've forgotten the names and the brands!

The depiction of women's bodies as out of control, hairy and smelly and needing to be brought into line by products.......

Also, and increasingly, men's bodies. Never leave a potential market untapped! Create as much need as possible; keep changing it. I noticed the other day that there are now special shampoos & body washes for women to use while pregnant ...

I am always amazed when people refuse to believe they are being marketed to. I was once on a long thread about panty liners.........

Surely you only have to go into Lakeland. The first three things you see are a special knife for cutting lettuce, a tool for removing the stalks from strawberries and a container for keeping half an onion in..........

I live near a Lakeland shop. I go there sometimes for a treat. Just looking at the sock drawer dividers and the mushroom brushes calms my soul.