Use of typically misogynistic words to describe women on MN

[minewouldbeyoug]

I'm talking about threads where an OP has discovered infidelity and the OW is referred to by posters as having 'no morals', being a whore, a slut, a cock - sucker etc.

There was a long - running thread (over several threads as they all filled up) here a little while ago where the OW had been described by the DH she was having an affair with as a really derogatory term which then was adopted as her 'title' rather than OW.

I in no way wanted to derail those threads where the OP needed a great deal of support. Which is why I've left it a little while before talking about my discomfort.

The threads were vicious about the DH as well but he was a bastard, a twat etc because there just aren't words like whore or slut that are applied to men.

The OP didn't use such degrading terms to describe the OW but many, many posters did.

I'm guessing (and hoping!) that most of those posters wouldn't normally use such terms to describe women but somehow, OW are fair game?.

I feel this is an extension of the idea that men can kind of do what they want sexually but women are held to different standards and there is a plethora of abusive terms to describe women's sexual activity but not for men.

I just felt extremely uncomfortable that women were using such terms - terms that have historically been used as unfair and abusive judgements by men to comment on women's sexuality.

LassUnparalleled
""it could just be crude blokey talk with nothing deeper behind it"

That explanation doesn't actually make it any better."

Well, if someone says something offensive I think it is preferable if they were not motivated by some sort of deeper malice.

I think it is arguable whether words like slut are intrinsically sexist in terms of their very meanings, but even if they are, I think it would still be "better" if the posters using these terms against OW were not motivated by some sort of hatred or contempt for women, as opposed to just not having thought about it too much.

There was a late night troll on here a few weeks ago. Started out with a thread in Relationships where we could ask him about why men behave in certain ways. Weird pics started being posted on that thread.

Then they spammed some other threads with 'show me gash'.

So it's been used, on this site, by a troll to incite women. It's quite a common phrase.

And I first heard needle-dick in my teens. It was in lots of American films during the 80s. Quite the US high school insult back then.

Well, if someone says something offensive I think it is preferable if they were not motivated by some sort of deeper malice.

I'm not going to repeat the word we are discussing but it's a bit like the word for that ugly caricature doll that used to feature on jam labels. It's so offensive in itself it doesn't need malice.

thanks for the link Yonic, and I'd read the comments below.

Being at uni sometime ago, so far ago I really don't care to recall...that stuff just wasn't there - I'd imagine anyone coming out with that stuff would be put in their place and swiftly.
Maybe the 'democratising' effect of the on-line life means that sort of crud gets air time, followed by young men who are angry/fearful they aren't going to get a shag (which seems crucial to them) because of their overall presentation and so revert to being a LAD..but girls/young women can't and shouldn't be a part of their narrative. 'if you feel inadequate that's your issue, not ours'.
Having said that, I'd still wonder just what influence these dickwads* have overall?

*dickwads - I only know that from U.S. television and don't really know what it actually means....

I've not heard needle dick in RL, only on MN, which makes sense if it is out of the US and maybe a bit younger than my age group, or maybe just didn't catch on in this area.

Gash definitely heard before plenty and it's not an uncommon or unusual term for women's genitals or indeed just for women. e.g. richard scudamore email thing, I don't remember anyone saying that was unusual, everyone knew full well what it meant, it's like cunt, a bit less offensive and a lot more sexual (the way it's used round here). Not that people use it all the time or anything but I certainly knew what it meant.

microdick in rl though plenty, if it's balance we're seeking.

But I don't think that groups of women / individual women tend to talk about men in the same terms that men (NAMALT) talk about women (or indeed other men, the post upthread a bit strikes a chord).

Young men who were at uni with me certainly used gash - not routinely but intending to be a bit shocking. And that was pre the launch of UniLad.

My point was that the phrase certainly exists outside of MN even if it's the only place you've heard it, Pan. Regional and generational variances abound as ever - I'm on another thread about names for girl's genitalia and many posters find fanny the obvious local parallel for willy whilst others think fanny is crude.

ah yes WG - the Scudamore incident - gash as an insult/belittling, thanks.
As I recall, it was the day before he presented the Premiership trophy to Man City () and when he was announced he was roundly boo-ed by the crowd.

yes Yonic - I wasn't saying it was an exclusive MN thing at all - just ime it had no profile (unicorns and things?) so I did take your point entirely. I'd filed away the Scudamore thing as generic trash without the word search

"Do I live a cosseted world of unicorns who shit rainbows? I've never heard use of gash or needle dick outside of MN. I'm pretty sure many posters of any sex haven't either."

Oh, I thought this meant you didn't think the words were used outside MN, my mistake!

I'm know lots of words are used outside of MN/ime and I get educated by them regularly..... usually with feigning street smarts, nodding along but thinking WTF does that mean?

I've never heard either expression in real life apart from the Scudamore incident. Gash to me is much worse than cunt.

"Gash to me is much worse than cunt."

To me too - probably because cunt is often used non specifically (cunting sainsburys" etc)

I have heard objectification, myself, but there isn't the nastiness. It's just appreciative, there's not this sort of demeaning, violent, crude, horrible edge IYSWIM.

With the usual disclaimers that NAMALT and NAWALT and I suppose NAGOMALT and NAGOWALT (not all groups of...). Because yes I'm sure women can and have been crude and hatey in their appreciation, and men of course can be lovely.

I suppose it's like, when I was a lot younger blokes at work would share demeaning pornographic images of women for a laugh, and later with mobile phones in the pub show each other snippets of stuff which was "gross" but also featured naked women.

I've never had a woman share a "pornographic" image of a man or men with me that featured them being humiliated, or doing something revolting, or having something revolting done to them, IYSWIM. It's a "male bonding" thing isn't it, I think? Why, I have no idea.

Funny how when you think about it this stuff all links up isn't it.

It never occurred to me before just now that the way groups of men can talk and the names used for women have this underlying nastiness, it's not simply about appreciation, and often not appreciation at all. It's an aggressive thing, and it's just a normal way to talk, that's horrible isn't it.

Explains as well why when women complain and others say oh it's just a compliment etc but often it isn't is it, there's this underlying aggression, nastiness, that is what women are often reacting against, but don't have the vocab or whatever to see it, like me I would not like it and not say anything, maybe feel flustered or angry, but not be able to put my finger on quite why I reacted as strongly as I did, but that has kind of made me understand that. So a revelation here today!

Similar to Jeanne's thread on feeling silenced, whirlpool?

As well as the " fake" appreciation there's the "fake" joke as well, as in " can't you take a joke ?" When said joke was an outright insult..

"It never occurred to me before just now that the way groups of men can talk and the names used for women have this underlying nastiness, it's not simply about appreciation, and often not appreciation at all. It's an aggressive thing, and it's just a normal way to talk, that's horrible isn't it." Yes yes yes. I used to frequent a sporting chat site (mainly male space) and the way men referred to women was as objects. There was no humour in it. And when they found out I was a woman I was told I needed to 'take it up the arse'. I have never ever seen the equivalent said or even the equivalent venom by women in female spaces, just for finding out who they were speaking to was a man. The nastiness just isn't there. There maybe anger with a man's actions or in response to his words, but threatening with sexual violence...very very very rare in female spaces.

But of course, it was banter...

This conversation has proved to be quite therapeutic for me. When I was late teens I accidentally overheard male "banter" about me; or, rather, my body. I was physically shaking as the talk got worse and worse, and violent. I really had no idea what I'd done to make these "nice boys" hate me. Upshot was, one was mortified, "I'm really not like that" (the one who'd really run with it) and the other two were a bit "FFS we were pissed, it was banter, of course it didn't mean anything, we were just laughing along" and deflecting responsibility onto the guy who'd said the worst thing and also me for 'eavesdropping'.

Over the years, whenever I've out of the blue remembered that incident (literally never talked about it since) I had an automatic feeling of shame and closed down my thoughts very quickly. Because these were "nice boys" (politically conscious, ''liberal middle class", intelligent, educated, non-macho etc. etc. ). I couldn't ever imagine them talking about the other girls in the group that way. And, indeed, the other girl who'd also overheard what they were saying started going out with one of them very shortly afterwards. So it was clearly my problem.

Of course I've had to learn to be far more resilient to all sorts of nasty stuff, physical and verbal. Things that have made me angry but not ashamed. And I know now, having given myself a chance to think about it, that I won't ever have the automatic 'shame' feeling about that incident again. But I've clearly subconsciously carried that young adult incident with me for years, even though everyone saw me as very strong and confident (which is no doubt why I needed to be put in my place). So much for 'harmless' banter.