Use of typically misogynistic words to describe women on MN

[minewouldbeyoug]

I'm talking about threads where an OP has discovered infidelity and the OW is referred to by posters as having 'no morals', being a whore, a slut, a cock - sucker etc.

There was a long - running thread (over several threads as they all filled up) here a little while ago where the OW had been described by the DH she was having an affair with as a really derogatory term which then was adopted as her 'title' rather than OW.

I in no way wanted to derail those threads where the OP needed a great deal of support. Which is why I've left it a little while before talking about my discomfort.

The threads were vicious about the DH as well but he was a bastard, a twat etc because there just aren't words like whore or slut that are applied to men.

The OP didn't use such degrading terms to describe the OW but many, many posters did.

I'm guessing (and hoping!) that most of those posters wouldn't normally use such terms to describe women but somehow, OW are fair game?.

I feel this is an extension of the idea that men can kind of do what they want sexually but women are held to different standards and there is a plethora of abusive terms to describe women's sexual activity but not for men.

I just felt extremely uncomfortable that women were using such terms - terms that have historically been used as unfair and abusive judgements by men to comment on women's sexuality.

It's perfectly possible for a word to have a definition, a meaning, that is sexist.

Could you give an example of such a word?

I've never thought about the term pearl clutching as sexist. I think the aim is more to mock middle class people (not that I'm endorsing that, as such). Although, pearl clutching doesn't make sense when applied to men, I guess.

I'm not familiar with the other thread and wank fodder. There may be compelling reasons why so many mumsnetters thought it's OK to describe someone as such but it does sound quite sexist without the detail.

It's perfectly possible for a word to have a definition, a meaning, that is sexist

Could you give an example of such a word?

Off the top of my head, I would say that a word is sexist if it utilises male/female, man/woman in the definition, when the characteristics or behaviour denoted by the word are not intrinsically linked to being male/female.

Sister: a female sibling = not sexist.

Slut and all the synonyms you find in the thesaurus...

www.thesaurus.com/browse/slut

"Off the top of my head, I would say that a word is sexist if it utilises male/female, man/woman in the definition, when the characteristics or behaviour denoted by the word are not intrinsically linked to being male/female."

That isn't about the meaning of the word though. I can think of words where the very meaning is something like 'someone who is black/Pakistani/etc and this is in some way a bad or negative thing to be' but couldn't off the top of my head think of a word with an inherently sexist meaning.

But as for the distinction you make, how does adulteress fit into it. Or Gigolo or rent-boy? All three are about behaviours not intrinsically linked to gender.

I agree with you to a point - but man-slut and man-whore are terms that are pretty well recognised, and I pull my teens up for using the terms to decribe either gender. Horrible way to describe anyone.

Gigolo and rent-boy are sexist in my opinion, yes. I'm sure there'll be exceptions and other things to think about. As I said, it's an off the top of my head starting point.

I can think of words where the very meaning is something like 'someone who is black/Pakistani/etc and this is in some way a bad or negative thing to be' but couldn't off the top of my head think of a word with an inherently sexist meaning

I don't understand. Can you try to explain that to me again please?

Does something have to carry a negative connotation to be sexist. Is 'stud' not sexist?

Most of the terms eg slut for a man though are like a badge of honour.

Slurs against mens sexuality are to do with non-performance, blue balls, jaffas, etc

Not in the way the young 'uns are using them they're not, ime.

Adulteress is a descriptive word, not pejorative, and has a direct parallel in adulterer. It isn't sexist.

Are gigolo and rent boy used as insults to men like whore and slut are to women? I don't like them as terms, no.

Are gigolo and rent boy used as insults to men like whore and slut are to women? I don't like them as terms, no.

No they are not used in the same way. They are horrible words but they tend to be applied to men only when they are engaging in commercial sex. The others are used whether a woman is charging for it or giving it away happily for nothing.

Adulteress is a descriptive word, not pejorative, and has a direct parallel in adulterer. It isn't sexist

Totally agree with this - no different from actor/actress, widow/widower.

However, look at the sexual connotations of these definitions, taken from the same dictionary:

tempt•er (?t?mp t?r)

n.

1. one that tempts, esp. to evil.
2. the Tempter, Satan.

tempt·ress (t?mp?tr?s)

n.
A usually sexually alluring woman who repeatedly seduces or manipulates others.

IMO the use of slut and whore is something that is adapting over time. Obviously traditionally they are used solely to describe women but now I feel they are more of a unisex word. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe it's just a regional thing.

Language is never static. Another example I can think of is "the C word" younger generations seem to use it a lot more now and although it's still offensive, it's nothing like it used to be.

Mide7 - I don't know if it's regional but as I said earlier, round my way you hear them applied to men and women, without the pre-fix 'male.' And I'm talking about people in their 30s, so not just the young'uns… whether it's meant as a slur or as a synonym for 'promiscuous' with no negative judgement attached varies in my experience. I don't personally use them because I personally can't shake the negative associations of sexism off. They might be being used in a unisex and non-negative way, but the old connotations are still there for me.

The language frequently used to describe older women (typically in threads about buggies on buses or children in shops) is also shocking. In a sexist-ageist combo that never seems to be applied to men.

Totally agree op. I'm forever calling out the fifties era sexism that erupts on almost all threads about male infidelity. I know everybody is sick of me banging on about it but it rouses my hackles every time I see it.

I don't blame anybody for being furious, enraged and irrational when faced with the worst betrayal. I don't blame them for lashing out and using harsh terms.

But I do expect level headed people offering support to do so in a non misogynistic way.

It's as old as the hills - the woman always gets the blame.

Threads about affairs generally tend to follow the same pattern - the OW is a whore, the bloke is a bastard scumbag who couldn't keep his dick in his pants - and once a cheater, always a cheater.

what does OW stand for? (it's not in the acronyms)

Other Woman

"I can think of words where the very meaning is something like 'someone who is black/Pakistani/etc and this is in some way a bad or negative thing to be' but couldn't off the top of my head think of a word with an inherently sexist meaning

I don't understand. Can you try to explain that to me again please?"

Think of the four letter shortening of Pakistani. That's a pejorative about being Pakistani. You don't need to go round the houses to make it a racist term by considering that it denounces behaviour but no equivalent word exists for the practitioners of this behaviour in other groups, and so on. The racism is in inherently within the meaning.

Can't think of anything similar which simply means woman + being a woman is bad/negative, off the top of my head.

Gash?
Slit?
Hole?
That/it (as in "I'd bang that")?

"skirt" as in chasing skirt etc
"wimen"
"a goer"

You don't need to go round the houses to make it a racist term

The N-word or P-word have definitions that are not inherently racist but these are racist terms because of the way they are used. The P-word was not deemed racist in non-UK countries for example. The N-word was originally a neutral term.

I don't think you have to travel too far "round the houses" to identify sexist terms.

"Gash?
Slit?
Hole?"

What about them? There are a million and one slang terms for genitals.

laurierf
"The N-word or P-word have definitions that are not inherently racist"

They are pejoratives, which mean they have a descriptive element and a value-judgment element to their meanings. And the value-judgment element is against a group and not a behaviour.

And sure words can have different meanings at different times and in different locations.