So, following on from the school skirts being too short thread, you'll never guess what I was told today

[BerylStreep]

A friend told me today that the headmaster in her DD's primary school has issued a directive that all girls must wear tights all year round, and has personally briefed each class explaining that girls' legs should not be seen, and nor should their pants ever be visible. He was explicit that this was so that boys wouldn't see their legs or pants.

I'm and at this. So parents of girls are put to additional expense of buying tights, and girls are forced to wear hot tights during summer months. The message being given clearly to primary aged girls is that their bodies are sexual (including legs - horror), and that they are responsible for ensuring that boys don't get to witness such sexuality.

My friend wants to complain, and has asked me to help her write a letter of complaint. Can anyone help me compose a letter of complaint?

I'm tempted to advise my friend to write to the head in the first instance asking him to clarify the situation and the rationale for the policy, and await his response before she makes a formal complaint.

The head is completely bonkers btw. He is obsessed with appearance, having regular shoe inspections, and would single out any child for humiliation if they weren't wearing completely black shoes, and sends the VP on a regular basis to interrupt classes to conduct sock inspections - sometimes twice in the same day .

Any thoughts on what I should suggest in a letter of complaint / who should be copied into the complaint?

unfortunately for you it isn't going to drive me away from expressing my views

Unfortunate for all of us headmaster Mr Binary.

If you haven't experienced wearing tights you have no business saying whether or not girls would mind having to wear them, let alone having to wear them for no better reason than to make sure the boys don't become aroused by them! In any case, we all agree that it's not a good idea - you may not think it's worth moving your child's school, you're not the first t say so on this thread, other MNers have already made this point, and did so without being so condescending as to pronounce that in general people on the thread were being hysterical just because their chosen course of action would differ.

Why not take your own advice and stop being so egotistical. Engage with what the thread is actually about or don't bother. And don't come on and say 'I don't believe the OP anyway' - if that's the case report, don't post.

Oh, please, please tell me that MrBinary is a joke poster?

It would explain the pompous manner and the lack of factual knowledge. And hysterical? Oh! My sides!

Or can I do the picture?

Beryl that is a totally shite new policy. Hope you and your friend can get it changed, or get the weirdo head changed, either works.

Hi Beryl. Hope the letter has the desired effect. Do let us know what happens.

If you need any further explanation, are not satisfied with my reasoning or take issue with any other part of my comments I would appreciate you letting me know.

You are mansplaininig, repeatedly.

You have no experience of being forced to wear tights in hot weather, or even just in a hot room. If you have had experience of thrush or UTI it is a different experience for a woman.

Some people take equality seriously. They know that a constant drip drip of subliminally telling one group of people they are not as good as an other group is just as damaging as one big incidence of discrimination.

As for hysteria, this is about the health and well being of school children. I include both boys and girls in that, and I also include mental health.

Before you start positing in feminism you could at least learn the difference between gender and sex.

You are impotent in more than one meaning of the word.

Beryl I guess you have to dig in for the long haul here. My suspicion is that the letter will elicit a really unpleasant, patronising response from the headteacher. You're going to have to escalate to the governors and Ofsted, and get a group of the other parents onside. Plus, hopefully, local press (the archetypical "sad pic" of a couple of girls in thick tights on the hottest day of the year, preferably with their brothers looking comfortable in shorts!).

Also, satire is your friend - joking comments like "what next, Victorian-style frills on the school piano legs?" to underline what an idiot the man is being. Remember, the aim is to win the war, which probably means (to get a maximum number of parents on board) stressing the practical aspects, and (to some extent) playing down the issues of gender unfairness and premature sexualisation. Sadly there will be parents, even mothers of girls, who are in the "I'm not a feminist" camp*, and until you've sussed out whether you can carry a majority of parents along with you, you possibly have to down-play this aspect (though not in the letter to Ofsted and the governors - you can make the point to them).

*I may be feeling unduly jaded by some of the "why I am not a feminist" threads on Chat recently.

PS - I am using my imaginary "hide poster" button with Mr. Binary and I suggest the rest of us do too.

If there is one thing I've learned in life, it's that you don't muck around. You go straight to the top and get stuff done - so it's not being hysterical to suggest asking for risk or equality assessments, or if that is your choice, taking the definitive action of removing your child. It's being decisive and taking control of the situation (I realise as British Women that's exactly what we're not supposed to do - Brits don't complain, and Women should ask nicely and not make a fuss) rather than pussy-footing around asking if perhaps, possibly, the man might reconsider his mandate.

This reminds me of the poster on the skirts thread who popped up to inform us all that skirts were easier when you had your period - despite the women on the thread saying exactly the opposite.

Beryl - I think that's an excellent letter in response to a worrying policy. I agree with Lurcio that you may need to play up and down different aspects of it to different groups - but the good thing is there are so many things wrong with it that it shouldn't be hard to find an angle that gets most people on board...

Good luck, and let us know the response.

MrBinary, CaptainHolt had the correct interpretation of the question that I was asking.

The rest of your post was dismissive and offensive. But that says far more about you than it does about us. For example that you think it is OK to humiliate a child in certain circumstances because it isn't as bad as hitting them is incredibly worrying.

"If there is one thing I've learned in life, it's that you don't muck around. You go straight to the top and get stuff done..." Absolutely ChunkyPickle and whilst removing a child from school wouldn't be my first course of action in this instance, if there was a clear pattern of the values of the school not matching my values i.e. striving to provide an environment free from discrimination, then that would certainly be something I would consider.

Beryl you are doing great. And good luck with the letter. Hope your friend is OK .

I did wonder if you were in NI when I read the OP. I am too.

I had been looking at the uniform policy of the secondary school I used to attend last week and it has now made tights compulsory for girls in years 10-14. Their skirts must be below the knee.

Years 8 and 9 are allowed to wear socks or tights, and their skirts must be on the knee.

So basically, once you turn 14 you must cover up your legs. Can't have the poor 14-18 yo boys looking at girls legs.

Thanks all. I'll come back to update if I hear any word.

There are other worrying incidents of an extremely serious but completely unconnected nature which have occurred at the school, which seriously call into question the leadership and attitude of the senior management team. However, not my battle to fight. Nor is this really, I just agreed to draft a letter cos I'm good at it.

I have contacted an educational safeguarding expert to find out if he is aware of any precedent in the education sector for this type of policy, and he replied that it wasn't something he has ever personally come across, and was supportive at looking at other alternatives to provide choice to children and parents.

The thing is it was such a lovely school before, really local and with an excellent reputation. Such a shame it has changed so much.

sliceofsoup - tights all year round?

wtf is going on????

Yep, all year round.

Another local school says tights are compulsory for all girls from Halloween to Easter.

I think it is madness. None of the schools near me allow girls to wear trousers.

I don't understand. Where is this coming from? Are girls being punished for wider society becoming more liberal - people trying to enforce control of their "values" where they are able?

It's really unhealthy to put girls in tights all year round. I'm genuinely taken aback. They are happy to sacrifice the health and comfort of the female children, for what? Some kind of talebanesque idea about how women and girls must cover themselves because males can't control themselves? I mean that's what it is, isn't it. They're just legs FFS no-one says that boys in shorts are sex objects and causing a ruckus.

I honestly find this really disturbing. We aren't supposed to be heading in this direction in the UK. I know NI is very different but still I would have expected / hoped for static, if not forwards. Not backwards.

This is the kind of attitude that has girls shouldn't be in schools at all at the end of it, isn't it.

Even the most awful, nylon beige uniform places I've worked have specified that you only have to wear tights in the winter.

Even the orthodox girls who went to school near where I once lived didn't wear tights all year round - just ankle length skirts.

I haven't read all of the thread but the headmaster sounds as if he secretly, or maybe not so secretly, wants to be a head at a private school and thinks this is what happens at private schools. Except I've not come across a private school acting so daft.

It's really unhealthy to put girls in tights all year round. I'm genuinely taken aback. They are happy to sacrifice the health and comfort of the female children, for what? Some kind of talebanesque idea about how women and girls must cover themselves because males can't control themselves?

I don't think it's that at all, I think (personal theory) it is to do with this being RC. The RC view of the ideal woman being both a virgin and a mother.

You must have your legs on show, but covered at the same time. You can't wear trousers but you must not show your pants.

You can have an education but you must not feel equal to a male. At my VI form (I hope things have changed) boys did maths with mechanics, girls did maths with stats, even if you were a girl doing physics so needing the mechanics.

The two schools I mentioned above aren't RC. But I agree with your point in general sashh.

I'm really uncomfortable with a policy that insists on covering up parts of a girl's body but turns a blind eye to the same parts of a boy's body. The implications are –well, not implied so much as explicit.

I think your letter is great, OP. Personally I'd take out 'rather than introducing an oppressive and punitive policy?' as you've already said 'punitive' and I think 'oppressive' comes across as a value judgement. (I know you ARE value-judging, and I agree with you, but I think the letter should be as factual and unemotive as possible).

Good luck! The head sounds a bit nuts.

I have to say, our secondary has the same policy. So the girls today could be seen going to school with tights on, when the forecast is planning 28oC....
I have seen a nursery having the same policy for its staff too....
It's crazy....

This is craziness and I would Def be challenging it.

As an aside I thought the rules re uniform meant any changes to uniform had to go through a consultation process with parents and govenors etc and reasonable time for implementation of a crossover term where they can wear old stuff ie till outgrown.

As a mother of boys and a girl I would be complaining on behalf of my daughter but also my son's, it gives the message that boys are incapable of controlling themselves so girls must covet up. My boys are taught to respect all people and they are not animals with no self control.

This is not an RC thing per se, at least not when involving a primary school. DD attends an RC primary and the rule.is white ankle.socks.for girls, with dresses. There is no shorts under skirts rule. Because the powers that be are not idiots.

Just lately I've read a few cases where teachers have sexually abused pupils. I haven't read a single story of a student getting physical with another because they had bare legs.

Beryl not read all the comments by far but wanting to join in and hear how this resolves.

The head sounds bats and the parents should probably get together and activate - maybe issue a statement to the school collectively to the effect that they have no confidence in this policy (or any other that descriminates against girls, and which puts added pressure on low income families).

Personally I think (no experience but I bet others have) if enough people defy the rules the school will have no option but to re-think.

If all children went to school in their own shoes and socks and stuck to the school policy as it was before the changes then the school would hopefully be unable to sanction all pupils.

Also a reminder to the school they are their to educate and are not the fashion police would be very helpful.

If this were my kids' school I would be tempted to involve the kids in writing letters to protest this, and each letter would request - 'require' - a reply, e.g. include questions 'Why is this policy good for our school?' 'How can you justify getting low income families to pay out for new shoes?' . A week of administrating that lot and he might think whether it was worth making everyone's life a misery.

Please note I have no experience of this and am probably talking out of my arse! But my gut feeling based on the bits I have read here is that he is wasting everyone's times and money so they should waste his!

Hope it works out!

Simply ignoring the policy in relation to tights and continuing to wear appropriate coloured socks and shoes is a good idea actually (particularly in the weather we are currently having!).

When I was at school, one year my whole class decided we were too old for summer dresses. Nearly everyone just carried on wearing winter uniform through the summer. As it was so many of us, and we were in correct uniform, just for a different season, the school couldn't really do anything and summer dresses were effectively phased out after a while, although I think you could always wear them if you wanted to.

Mind you, it is still worth getting the policy, and any such discriminatory policies, removed formally as you are trying to do.