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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I am not Feminist

123 replies

Muslim786 · 01/06/2015 01:59

I would like to mention several facts about feminists. Agree or not, at least try to ponder about it:

  1. Feminists are rude
  1. They tend to be rich or upper middle class
  1. They over-analyze everything which men do. So now a man cannot even open his mouth to pass a little comment or say something ordinary without thinking twice or thrice how his feminist-influenced wife will scream "misogynist" and create an argument out of nothing.
  1. Feminists want political power

Now before you swarm me with negative comments (I hope I'm wrong in anticipating that) I would like to say that the feminists of old days were much better. They were concerned with human dignity and good treatment of women. They deserve to be saluted. Why modern feminists are not willing to negotiate or compromise?

Please I am asking this question very sincerely and do not want to create any kind of social disturbance.

OP posts:
GunShotResidue · 01/06/2015 11:44

I'll bite (because I'm procrastinating from revising for my exam tomorrow)

Feminists come in all shapes and sizes. Generalising is never a good idea. That being said, the main aim of feminism is equality with men.

Where do you think we should compromise? Equal with men except on a Thursday when we can be talked down to and paid less? (Possibly some sarcasm there, but genuinely what part of equality do you think feminists should compromise on?)

As for fathers, if women's careers were considered as important as men's they wouldn't be assumed to be their child's main carer. In my opinion feminism benefits fathers.

Thurlow · 01/06/2015 11:48

What compromise are men going to offer in this scenario, then?

HazleNutt · 01/06/2015 11:56

So what is the feminist view about how women should be encouraged to dress and what's the one to negotiate a compromise with?

LurcioAgain · 01/06/2015 11:57

Okay, oh fount of all wisdom.

How should I as a woman dress?
Who should get the right to tell me how I as a woman should dress?
What careers are acceptable for me as a woman to pursue?
Who gets to decide this?
Assuming I opt for one of these socially acceptable careers, should I be paid the same as a man?
What happens if I am paid less than a man, and don't like this state of affairs? Am I allowed to complain about it?
Do you think women should be allowed to vote?
Who are these conservative people you talk of, and are they in fact conservative men, and by implication, women who do not agree with them should just shut up?

uglyswan · 01/06/2015 11:58

OK, I've got an hour to waste, so why not? Let's pretend that you actually are a "genuine and open minded (Confused) person actually trying to have a discussion and go through your batshit list of points you feel you want some compromise on.

  1. "Discussion, compromise and fresh choices about how women should be encouraged to dress" Encouraged, huh? What the damp leathery fuck are you on about? Why would I want to run my style of dress by you? Because if you aren't Rei Kawakubo, then I probably know more about dressing myself than you do. But this is about "modesty" isn't it? So here's my suggestion: wear a fucking blindfold if you can't control yourself. Or just don't ever leave the house.
  1. "Compromises between husband and wife" - most straight married people I know compromise all the time, they're way ahead of you. "Giving priority to raising kids rather than pursuing a career" - yes, why aren't more fathers giving priority to raising their children? I'd be happy to discuss that with you.

The rest of your post is conspiracist babble. You didn't come on here to discuss anything, you came on to dribble your ill-informed shit all over a feminist board. If you're really interested in an exchange of views, why did you start your post with a series of baseless accusations against feminists? Why is wanting political power such a terrible thing? Why does being white and middle class discredit any of your opinions? Why don't you actually listen to your wife when she takes offense at your sexist bullshit insteadof coming on here, insulting an entire group of people you've never even met and then whining and puling because no one is interested in catering to your dismal medieval views?

YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 01/06/2015 12:00

Hi all, thanks for persevering with this one. We have banned MrM for being a GF, and will be deleting the thread shortly.

prepperpig · 01/06/2015 12:04

I'm not sure you'd like discussing it with me OP. Whilst I think some of the stuff on the feminism boards is silly. I am a very high earning female business owner, breadwinner in my family (by a significant margin) never seen out without a fair bit of slap on and ultra high heels. I'm a discrimination lawyer and I specialise in equal pay matters.

Having said that I am also there to pick up the DCs from school every day and cook them a "proper" meal every evening and I spent all day yesterday baking for the family. If a man didn't hold a door open for me I'd think him a bit rude and it makes me very cross when people (particularly women unfortunately) try to blame their failings in the workplace on the fact that they're being discriminated against (sometimes it is discrimination, often it's that they're just not good at their job). That's about the extent of my "compromise".

PuffinsAreFictitious · 01/06/2015 12:06

But there is room for discussion, compromise and fresh choices about how women should be encouraged to dress, how to make compromises between husband and wife relationship and giving priority to raising kids rather than pursuing a career.

Apart from the fact that women can dress however the hell they like, I broadly agree. Men should learn how to compromise with women and take on far more responsibility within the household, I also agree that men should give far greater priority to raising their children rather than their careers, in that way women can also pursue their goals and then everyone will be happier.

Furthermore, the divisive politics of feminism is regrettably becoming mainstreamed and subtly promoted by mainstream liberal media, especially Huffington Post in the online world.

If by divisive politics, you mean women being freed from their imposed gender roles and allowed to express themselves as human beings, then it's brilliant that that is becoming a more mainstream idea.

Many conservative people (who make up the majority of humanity) are alarmed at these social and political developments that have very dangerous implications.

Yes, change is always difficult for those who have most to gain from retaining the status quo. Are you suggesting that the majority of humanity doesn't want women to be equal partners? Or just the majority of men? The concept that women might have their own views about whether they have rights that might be slightly different to yours is often alien to men who don't really see women as people, more as kitchen appliance/surrogate mother.

I think we should sit down and negotiate some compromise. If you are a reasonable person I think you would at least agree to that.

I am eminently reasonable. There is no compromise when it comes to equality, you either have it or you don't. Women don't have it, we want it and we will get it eventually.

GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 01/06/2015 12:06

Genuine LOL at "how women should be encouraged to dress"

PuffinsAreFictitious · 01/06/2015 12:07

Oh, Helen. You're just no fun!

popalot · 01/06/2015 12:07

'Negotiate a compromise'? Isn't that what women have been doing in modern society. It's not worked out so well, has it? First of all, women have always worked. They may have worked from home or in their locality, but they have always worked. Across the world. Across cultures. Paid or unpaid. Or paid less then men. I don't see a massive change in that, only that gradually women are being recognised in their careers in an official manner rather than degraded and paid for women's work. There have always been nurses, midwives, carers. Most of the world's farming outside our technologised western farming is done by women.

So I say less compromise and more recognition for what we all do. You might be happy not being rewarded for your work, but I'm not. It isn't about female rights. It's about human rights. We are all humans. Women don't deserve less because they were born with two x chromosomes. We know that biologically and intellectually we are a match for men. We also know that physically men may generally be stronger and have thus been able to dominate our finances, but physiologically we are equally strong and in this day and age physical strength is being replaced by technological advancements.

So the time is to stop compromising and demand human equality, across cultures, genders, age (children and old people included). That is the direction the I want humans to go in.

iklboo · 01/06/2015 12:12

'Negotiate a compromise' = 'do what we decide you should do, there's a good girl'. With a pat on the head / arse for good measure.

prepperpig · 01/06/2015 12:16

Yes I should also add (if you're still able to read this) that when I say those are my "compromises" I didn't mean that I do those things to make DH happy. I do those things because I choose to.

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 01/06/2015 12:17

Oh don't delete it, give us all a chance to dig in.

"But there is room for discussion, compromise and fresh choices about how women should be encouraged to dress, how to make compromises between husband and wife relationship and giving priority to raising kids rather than pursuing a career. Furthermore, the divisive politics of feminism is regrettably becoming mainstreamed and subtly promoted by mainstream liberal media, especially Huffington Post in the online world. Many conservative people (who make up the majority of humanity) are alarmed at these social and political developments that have very dangerous implications. I think we should sit down and negotiate some compromise. If you are a reasonable person I think you would at least agree to that."

What you mean you arse is that there is room for men to make fresh demands on how women should live, room for men to force women's submission in intimate relationships and give priority to men at all times rather than focus on their own needs. Furthermore the gender stereotypes in UK are becoming ever stronger and seriously impact on the way society views women and impacts on their opportunities for happiness or even contentment in life, and so you think need to be pushed even further because no woman has the right to be happy. You think we should all sit down, listen to you, and do exactly what you say.

Fuck off, to the far side of fuck, and when you get there, fuck off some more.

InAndOfMyself · 01/06/2015 12:18

I think the thread should stand because there are some really good responses on here. I've enjoyed reading the thread.

YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 01/06/2015 12:20

Well never let it be said we don't listen... post away, but don't expect a response. Wink

ChunkyPickle · 01/06/2015 12:20

Good god I've tried to negotiate a compromise where DP does some pickups/dropoffs and I do some, I've tried to compromise on getting him to ask for a touch of flexible working rather than mine having to to all the flexing (luckily I too am a high earner and able to make my hours largely speaking), I've tried to compromise on who cooks/cleans/looks after the kids, but will DP meet me half way? Not without some pretty heavy negotiation on my part let me tell you!

(he's bone idle, not sexist... and prioritises work rather than looking after our kids - but he does have many good points too, and I'm obviously being brutal for dramatic effect)

It's not the feminist who have a problem with compromise in my experience, it's definitely not us!

NoTechnologicalBreakdown · 01/06/2015 12:20

And yes, I don't doubt that conservative men are alarmed by any threat to their privilege and their idea that women should exist only to service their every whim. Poor dears. Fuck off a bit more.

Forgot to add that bit.

slug · 01/06/2015 12:26

But there is room for discussion, compromise and fresh choices about how women should be encouraged to dress

Might I suggest, if you are a conservative of the Christian variety, that you meditate on Matthew 18:9. If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out. Don't tell women what to wear so your eye is not offended.

uglyswan · 01/06/2015 12:28

Ooooh, our very own stuffed troll! Thank you Helen! Mmmwah xx Flowers

Nolim · 01/06/2015 12:32

Op let me take what you have said and replace the word women with men:

But there is room for discussion, compromise and fresh choices about how womenmen should be encouraged to dress, how to make compromises between husband and wife relationship and giving priority to raising kids rather than pursuing a career.

Think about it. Do you think it makes sense? Think really hard. Would you follow your own guidelines? let someone else decide how you should wear, compromise with your dp and consider rasing kids.

If you are not willing to consider that then you are being hypocritical.

slugseatlettuce · 01/06/2015 12:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Anniegetyourgun · 01/06/2015 12:58

if you are a conservative of the Christian variety

Unlikely. There may or may not be a clue in the poster's name. Mind you the views expressed would go equally well with many religions.

LurcioAgain · 01/06/2015 13:11

Uglyswan: "Ooooh, our very own stuffed troll! Thank you Helen! Mmmwah xx"

I'm now imagining him stuffed and mounted on a plinth and placed in a quiet side room of the pub. So long as the goat doesn't eat him.