Men who feel the need to police what women say

[ShadowsCollideCantLogInToMN]

Obviously I know that not all men do this, but I encountered it tonight, and I'm extremely pisssed off.

So I posted a jokey update on FB yesterday about encountering a spider in the house that was 'as big and hairy as the fucking cat'. Not an earth shattering, important post, just an observation that was admittedly rather hyperbolic .

Had a few responses from people who had found similar big beasts lurking. Then tonight had a phonecall from my Mum, asking if I'd seen a particular response from a male relative. I hadn't, as I hadn't been on FB all day. It was a very scolding, unpleasant post, telling me that I ought to 'wash my mouth out'. This person definitely wouldn't speak the same way to a man. His son frequently posts ranty, sweary posts, and nothing is ever said by the person in question. He felt the need to publicly smack me down, because I'm a woman.

What's infuriating me even more is that my Dad's response to this, my usually lovely, liberal, supporter of women Dad, was that I should just delete the post. Yes, because as a woman, it's my job to erase the evidence of this man's small minded misogyny. I ought to protect him from embarassment.

Sorry, I'm ranting and not really asking a question. I'm just so annoyed at my relative for taking it upon himself to publicly scold me. I'm even more annoyed at my Dad for telling me to quietly remove the post. Why? To protect this relative? To save my Dad from the embarassment of being associated with such a person? I'd have expected him to defend me.

I'm pissed off, disappointed, and freshly aware of how us women are supposed to merrily take instruction from men, and say nothing.

yes, women are expected to constantly adapt their actions to the feelings of men, especially older male relatives.
If you don't back down, your Dad will have to apologise to his relative for not being able to control his daughter.
It's always a worse shock when a male who you think is on your side reverts to type.

Take a deep breath and when you feel under control, explain to your Dad as you've just explaimed to us. Also that you feel hurt & let down by his initial response.
Hopefully he'll understand and do better next time, or maybe he is only "liberal" when convenient.

Exactly, BigChoc. My Dad actually said 'oh but he's old, he's just old school in his thinking'. Like that makes it okay. Fuck, my maternal Granda was 88 when he died, and he'd never have scolded me like that. He was progressive, he listened to his young granddaughters.

I was actually shaking with anger and upset when I got off the phone with my Mum. I'd always thought of my Dad a a Feminist ally. To discover he's not is a shocking blow.

So I'm supposed to moderate my response to being publicly scolded to appease an uncle of my Dad's?

I will definitely explain all of this to my Dad when I see him in person tomorrow. I suspect that I'll be told to let it slide though. So in addition to having to face misogyny from a family member, I'll have to face the fact that my Father isn't the man I thought he was. That he just pays lipservice to being all right on, and liberal, and supportive of women. How unbelievably disappointing.

If it's a comment on a post of yours can you not just delete his comment? I'd do that and not engage any further than that.

Oh and change your settings so he can't see anything you post from now on.
I get why you're annoyed though.

He told on you to your mum for swearing on Facebook!! Is he 13?

See, Lager, I considered doing that. I couldn't though, despite urging from my Dad. Why is it my place as a woman to protect him from people seeing what he's really like? Let his post stand, so everyone he is friends with observe his desire to police what women say.

RedCrayons, he didn't tell on me to my Mum, as such, she just saw his post before I did. More, he gave me a very public telling off on FB for all my friends and family to see. Which is even worse, I think. He was very firmly putting me in my place

Respond to the post. Tell him you don't need any man to put you in your place but thank you anyway...

Actually the more I think about, the more I think I would give him a good telling off on fb if I were you! How rude, much ruder than a few fucking typed swear words.

Reply to this man and tell him clearly that he doesn't have any right to tell you how to behave or how to express yourself. I think that's the only response I would be happy with myself, as leaving it unchallenged doesn't feel right and neither does deleting/hiding it.

Oh, I responded, wicked. Quite vehemently. My response has been wholly ignored, but I definitely wasn't going to be chastised by some arse and say nothing.

Culture, I sat on it for a couple of hours, as I didn't want to piss my Dad off. Bloody hell, and now I realise how conditioned we are not want to anger The Men. I couldn't not respond any longer. I really couldn't leave it unchallenged.

Ah, I think not wanting to piss your Dad off is not solely down to social conditioning to please men, but also because of entirely reasonable family relationships! I generally don't want to piss off my mum or my dad

Well, clearly you aren't prepared to be bullied by this arse. You've responded quickly and surely. Talk to your Dad tomorrow - remember if the older male relative is the sort of person he sounds like, your Dad is also a victim of this patriarchal bullshit because he is conspiring to protect a man who's "senior" to him. At least he's not telling you to apologise or similar.

I'd be pissed off too, but don't let it spoil your relationship with your father. That's not what it's about really. You sound fab and so does your Mum.

Have my first ever Mumsnet

your dad is right.

you should correct and edit the FB post

that isn't even good swearing

"it was as fucking big and hairy as the FUCKING pussayyyyyyyyyyy you fucking brethren. LIKE IF YOU ARE FUCKING READING THIS!"

roomofsilver.

"That motherfucker was bigger and hairier than my cunt and TWICE AS SCARY."

GOOD TIP, I HEAR YOU REGULARLY WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH NIGEL FARAGE'S JIZZ!

"That fucker was bigger & hairier than my cunt and would gobble his pathetic little dick as a snack"

That's given me pause for thought, amethyst. My Dad's Dad was by all accounts a rather mean bully. The man in question is his brother. So perhaps my Dad has been conditioned to be polite and respectful and protective of his 'elders'.

Thanks for the flowers, and for saying I sound fab. MN has to take the credit for that, I was far more quiet and appeasing before I started reading the feminism fora on here.

I'm laughing at the most recent posts. Thanks for jollying me out of my rage.

Although, the notion of washing my mouth out with Farage's jizz? Shudder.

Bleach would be more palatable.

I don't know you or your dad but do you not think that your dad's reaction could be more of a 'try not to let it bother you' approach than 'expecting you to protect his brother'? Obviously the wrong approach, but not actually complicit.

He may have found that it's easier to ignore his birth family than try to change them.

I know the feeling of 'oh NO not you TOO' when a man you love says something crummy.

But in your dad's defence, I do think there's a lot men don't even think about, or have to think about, and it's forgiveable, I reckon, given the culture we all live in, that they get it a bit wrong sometimes. For me an ally isn't someone who always does everything perfectly in tune with feminism - especially with feminism having so many branches! - it's someone who's supportive and willing to think about it all.

Like you said he may be seeing it as a respect for elders thing, or just a keeping the peace thing, rather than a submitting to men thing. And whether or not he's right about that, it's a bit of a 'failure without intent' - or I think so anyway.

Hope this isn't too unclear, need
a coffee.

expecting you to protect his uncle I should have said, sorry. If your dad's been brought up with that environment he will know that you just can't win sometimes.

On the issue of your dad, I think are being a bit harsh on him. There is another discussion on FWR about 'Hot Feminism', and the subject of unsolicited male compliments came up. Two FWR posters (as opposed to trolls) were discussing how an old chap in his 70's had made a comment about said poster's attractiveness. He was forgiven on account of his age, and the incident was described as 'sweet'. By a feminist.

My point is that we cut old people all sorts of slack, all of the time, in all sorts of situations, based purely on their age/generation. Doing this has not changed your dad, or how he fundamentally views the world. Not everything is part of a patriarchal conspiracy.

Not a conspiracy (not this one anyway). A set of cultural assumptions that need challenging if they are ever to be overturned.