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Original poster

Women in pregnancy: why so stupid?

76 replies

ApocalypseThen · 20/04/2015 19:21

I'm currently pregnant and obviously that means I'm having loads of contact with medical people.

For the first time in my life, I'm consistently being treated like I'm half witted, silly and unable to process the nature of cause and effect.

Has anyone else experienced this? Why is it, that at this point, medical people treat you like an eejit? I don't think it's general disrespect for women (apart from the time a GP explained the meaning of post prandial) but it's been quite striking during pregnancy - when women are potentially at our most vulnerable.

Can anyone explain?

OP posts:
Galrick · 22/04/2015 15:14

Wrt your recent experience, Apocalypse, I think you're reading a 'pregnant women' issue into what was really an 'incompetent advisor' situation. Obviously, the world at large loves to patronise & instruct a pregnant woman both before and after the birth. But this particular event wasn't that - you'll get plenty of it to complain about, though.

It's jolly handy that you used 'post-prandial' in your OP. Responses show that the incorrect assumption about general vocabulary is yours, not the HCP's. It makes sense for public-facing professionals to use simple language and easy concepts.

If you want to be spoken to differently, you have to educate them on a one-by-one basis. I was about to post what Grimble did about being older! Fortunately, the additional decades of experience tend to remove any reticence about stating your preferences Wink

Original poster
ApocalypseThen · 22/04/2015 15:27

It makes sense for public-facing professionals to use simple language and easy concepts.

Possibly. My solution would be to use the general vocabulary only in that case rather than use non-general vocabulary and then explain in a more general way, particularly when it's a non medical term. As far as I'm concerned, the only reason for using a term and then explaning it in that manner is to underline your belief that your interlocutor does not understand.

OP posts:
DragonWithAGirlTattoo · 22/04/2015 15:36

I tell him I wouldn't mind getting pregnant. It's always just "get on with it, then"

well you say "you wouldnt mind" so he cannot know if you are actively TTC - what would you want him to say? surely if he responded with lots of information you could just as possibly turn around and say "i said i didnt mind, not that i was TTC ffs - why did he assume i was TTC" HE;s not useless, your questioning technique is

Galrick · 22/04/2015 15:49

Yes, I agree, Apocalypse. It's rude and intended as a display of superiority.

oddfodd · 22/04/2015 16:19

I answered in a similar fashion, grimble.

Apocalypse - I think a lot of HCPs are not very good at a bedside manner so are patronising in a mistaken belief they are being 'kind'.

slug · 22/04/2015 16:59

NHS prenatal classes. In the first session the group introduced ourselves. The room was full of middle class professionals, many of whom had multiple degrees. The Midwife starts her talk with

"Now, you know your baby is floating in water..."

Hmm It went downhill from there. She seemed incapable of adjusting to the fact that most of us were perfectly competent dealing with words of more than one syllable.

In all my appointments you could always spot the moment when the HCP got to the point in my notes where my partner's contact details were written. DH, at the time, worked in an internationally famous children's hospital. The level of language would suddenly leap and I'd be talked to rather than talked at. To this day, my only regret is that I didn't have a camera to capture the look on the consultant's face when DD was in the SCBU and DH (a medical scientist) decided to ask a pointed and somewhat detailed question about the results of some of the tests they were running on her.

AskBasil · 22/04/2015 19:04

"It makes sense for public-facing professionals to use simple language and easy concepts"

Yes. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to call me Mum though, because I didn't give birth to them and it's not my name.

Galrick · 22/04/2015 20:30

No, it doesn't make sense! It's completely bonkers.

StellaAlpina · 23/04/2015 12:10

I don't think it's particularly pregnancy related, more just that HCPs don't know how much you know/if English is your first language etc. so they have to make sure everyone understands as much as possible. I've never been pregnant though. Tbh I've never been massivly patronised either.

It'd be interesting to see if men have felt patronised by HCPs too, I might ask DH when he gets home from work.

GibberingFlapdoodle · 23/04/2015 12:26

I never felt particularly patronised, it's just that they do have to try and make sure you have the most / best information, they don't know what you already know, and not everyone has any science education at all never mind PhDs. Though I must admit if someone came along to my line of work and revealed they had PhDs in it I would take a more collaborative approach to finding out what they didn't know. Do the british communicate well on the whole d'you think? I admire the dutch peoples' rather more blunt - but without insults - approach in lots of ways. If only I could emulate it (generalising here of course).

GibberingFlapdoodle · 23/04/2015 12:35

And I didn't much mind being called mum because I was all excited about becoming one. Sorry to let the side down. But there's the point, it's lcd and you just have to politely tell them you don't like it.

AbbeyRoadCrossing · 23/04/2015 19:49

For me when I've had previous operations I've had things explained to me in a completely different way to when I was pregnant. Same hospital. Could just be my experience though.

dotty2 · 23/04/2015 20:40

In spite of having a Classics degree, I found myself having to think for a minute about what post-prandial meant, and confused it with post-coital in my head for a bit...

More generally, I'd just say that any service aimed at the entire population is going to make some people feel a bit patronised. (I remember one Dr being astonished I knew what a VBAC was: "Are you a HCP?" she said. Ermm, no - just a mner.) You just have to rise above it.

The 'mum' thing is a different matter, however.

AskBasil · 23/04/2015 22:41

"But there's the point, it's lcd and you just have to politely tell them you don't like it."

I shouldn't have to tell them I don't like it.

They shouldn't be calling me by something that isn't my name, that they haven't asked if I mind being called.

If I ask them not to, I'll be perceived as the problem. Whereas actually their patronising attitude to me is the problem.

AskBasil · 23/04/2015 22:41

What's lcd btw?

Galrick · 23/04/2015 23:08

Lowest Common Denominator.

Bue · 28/04/2015 11:45

I'm currently pregnant and haven't found this at all actually. I'm not sure if it's because it says I'm a midwife under Occupation on my notes that all the HCPs I meet are probably aware that I know the lingo. Although on the flip side, at my 20 week scan the sonographer started banging on about a possible complication that she had found and I had to ask her to explain it to me in simpler terms - I am a fairly new midwife and had never come across this particular condition before. I think this demonstrates how difficult it is for HCPs to get the tone right.

I hope I never talk down to people, but I think I have the opposite problem in that sometimes people aren't totally sure what I am saying (yes even those in so-called professional jobs etc) and I have to find layman's terms to explain it better.

Don't even get me started on HCPs calling pregnant women "mum".

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 28/04/2015 11:59

I'll be honest, I was grateful for it. I was absolutely terrified and my mind really wasn't in the right place to comprehend big words, and I was being judged from all angles for my age so it was nice to not feel judged.

I also have no issues with being called 'Mum' at appointments related to DD. That's what she knows me as.

Bue · 28/04/2015 12:08

I think this idea that those with PhDs / other advanced degrees automatically want or need to be spoken to at a higher level is a total fallacy. My DH is a genuine rocket scientist. However, he has NOT A CLUE about pregnancy/birth/anything medically related. After one consultant appointment I discovered that he had understood very little of the conversation between me and the consultant. Having a very high IQ doesn't automatically mean that someone knows medical terminology (and I guarantee he doesn't know the definition of post-prandial!).

I also remember very clearly one couple having their first baby in our MLU, a GP and an anesthetist. They had written in their birth plan to please treat them as first time parents rather than doctors. That doesn't mean they didn't want everything explained in intelligent language, but they didn't want the midwives assuming knowledge or treating them differently because of their jobs.

Heyho111 · 01/05/2015 05:57

as someone who works in the NHS we have to make sure that everyone understands what they are being told/ what is happening. This means we don't assume that people understand technical terms. We see people for very short time and don't have the time to work out their level of knowledge.
I applaud your GP and other medical staff for explaining everything. I wish more were that officiant. Better for you to be talked to like that than some other woman walking out not understanding what was said and then become frightened. It's a bit of a no win situation.

grimbletart · 01/05/2015 16:11

It is very irritating to be talked down to. Years ago I mostly fumed or occasionally made it clear it was not necessary by saying that if they said something I didn't understand I would tell them so they could clarify.

Now I pre-empt it by making it clear from the get-go there is no need to talk down.

One example: I had to be in hospital a while back. The Sister in charge asked whether I wished to be called Grimble or Mrs Grimble (which I think was really nice of them). I said I didn't mind what I was called as long as I was not spoken to slowly and loudly (on the basis that I'm a pensioner) as I am not deaf (yet) and not demented (yet). Grin

Original poster
ApocalypseThen · 01/05/2015 17:47

I applaud your GP and other medical staff for explaining everything.

My GP is fine but the point is that the question I asked was not answered nor was any attempt made to answer it on the basis that I'm a half wit who doesn't understand what she was asking about.

OP posts:
AskBasil · 01/05/2015 19:08

"Better for you to be talked to like that than some other woman walking out not understanding what was said and then become frightened. It's a bit of a no win situation"

Why is it impossible for NHS staff to be trained to communicate effectively with all their patients? Why does it have to be either patronise them to death or frighten them?

PacificDogwood · 01/05/2015 19:45

Why is it impossible for NHS staff to be trained to communicate effectively with all their patients? Why does it have to be either patronise them to death or frighten them?

I don't think it's impossible, but it is hard.
Hard to judge the person in front of you just right to get communication just right ALL of the time when you have, literally, 10 minutes. IMO HCP do try to get it right, but sometimes they don't, and it's unpleasant and not satisfactory for all concerned when they don't.

AskBasil · 02/05/2015 11:20

Oh yes I get that it's hard.

But I also don't know why it's automatically considered OK that it's preferable to patronise women than frighten them.

Would it be better to insult women than frighten them?

Or threaten women than frighten them?

Why is patronising us OK?