Transgender kids article in today's Guardian

[TerraNovice]

Did anyone see this article about Louis Theroux's documentary that airs tonight? www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/05/transgender-kids-children-change-sex-families

Admittedly I have some issues with it. Is it really good to give kids hormone blockers from childhood? And I do find one of the mothers' statement problematic where she says she felt like she had a little girl because her son liked her shoes and "feminine" things and wasn't interested if you put a truck in front of him. I find these ideas of gender really reductive. A child who is uninterested in traditional masculine or feminine toys etc may not necessarily be transgender, they could be an effeminate boy or a butch girl. Why pump them full of hormones when they are very little?

Any thoughts?

I think it's just maybe a step too far. I'm totally in favour of the freedom of choice, but I just feel that these youngsters are to young to make such incredibly far-reaching decisions. I totally support the parents for wanting the best for their children too, but it all just seems very "now", or black and white. Nature just isn't like that.

It isn't by any means 'now' it takes bloody years and the puberty blockers give time before any decisions are made.

I fully understand the process Tibbysmum, and only meant that maybe Nature should be allowed to take it's course.

I don't want my DS to take steroids nor do I want my DD to use hormonal contraception if possible. It's appalling that children's health and fertility are being so glibly discarded. What studies have been done on the long term health impacts of such fundamental interference with children's hormones?

And what if you block a child's puberty and they decide that they're happy the sex they were born? I would struggle to answer for my actions if my child were to find in later life that their fertility was reduced and they were not finding it easy to establish a much wanted family as a result of a fairly normal phase. How could you, in all serous responsibility, make a decision for someone else's body and future?

I saw this on Twitter today, and it kind of sums up.my thoughts (better than I can vocalise them at any rate)

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/samantha-rea/transgender-kids_b_7023466.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Wait, there's more:
www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32037397

^He was three and in a toy shop and he wanted a Barbie doll. Back then I did say, 'that's what girls play with - let's go and look at the trucks and cars'. But he was always drawn towards everything girly. Aged two and three he always wanted dolls, pink glittery things, princess stuff.
"As a parent that's confusing. You do think - how do we deal with this? What do you do in a shoe shop when your boy wants girls' shoes? Back then I was embarrassed and tried to steer her away to buy something else instead^

Sigh

It's that bit "preoccupied with things normally associated with girls" that gets me. If we truly wanted children to be themselves we'd let them be boys with interests in things society arbitrarily labels as for girls, and we'd stop stressing about it. How far does this go? Women interested in STEM subjects are actually trans? At what point is the cross over?

Two very interesting articles above, but I still have to agree with ApocalypseThen.

It makes me feel that, if I had been born today, then there is a strong chance that I would have missed out on having the relationship and family that I now have. By my late teens / early twenties, I came to accept that I was simply a crossdresser. I enjoyed (and still enjoy) crossdressing, but there was no way that I wanted surgery or to live as a woman full-time. Those early years were tough with feelings of not fitting in and that maybe you were not a real boy, but it's all part of finding yourself and developing as a person.

As it is, I have a wonderful wife and three amazing children. I can also be "Rachel" pretty well whenever I like and life is good. It just took time to develop.

What does "living as a woman full-time" mean, though?

Before any of you judge the parents in these cases, talk to someone who has/ is going through their own childs transition.

It is a long & tortuous process for all concerned, nothing is done without many hours of discussion, psychological evaluation & soul searching.

The one thing a parent wants is for their child to be happy and alive. If putting a pause on puberty helps give these children time to work through their feelings and know there is a way forward for whatever that turns out to be (including a complete turn back to their birth state) then thank god we have that option.

Obviously I would rather have kept my baby girl I gave birth to, & nurtured for 17 yrs.

But if the choice is between a dead child or a live one as a boy, such is the depth of self loathing & dysphoria, then I want to support my son to be as happy & fulfilled in his life as he can be.

I find it rather insulting that those of you with no idea of the situation or process can judge a parent and say they are pushing their child to change sex .

I don't think its parent pushing children to change sex. I think it's society that has created a problem by inviting on a binary attitude to behaviours, declaring some properly male and some properly female. When individuals don't conform to that particular, socially constructed, binary division then of course they feel "odd" in their birth sex. The answer society then comes up with to fix this is to alter the individual to fit into society.

Some of us think the answer is to challenge society. Some of us have not conformed to gender stereotypical behaviours ourselves, some of us have children who didn't conform. We were, apparently, lucky that this happened for us many years ago when we were allowed to not conform.

I can't imagine how painful it must be to be a parent dealing with this, and yes, it might be the best solution for an individual at a particular time In their life - it might indeed keep them alive so is the right thing to do. I would still want to challenge a society which, I think, creates the context which makes that child feel "wrong".

Insisting on, not inviting, sorry.

Society did not make my child feel wrong her breasts did, her birth state did, society may then have made it difficult to process as she did not conform but the initial feelings came from within.

Floundering, when did your child start to feel he was trans?

Ehric at puberty but finally came out at 16/17. He was not a girly girl as a child, very tomboyish but as I believe in letting kids choose how they play & dress as they explore growing up (& my then DH supported that) there was never a sense (he says) of feeling stifled or "other" he was just Birthname. The realisation of difference got stronger as puberty developed, and the dysphoria kicked in.

For younger kids having blockers (which they don't have until primary puberty is becoming obvious) and knowing they CAN have them later in life to pause/ stop that much dreaded change is a huge relief and then they can have load of counselling live as they wish hopefully if the family support is there (another issue in itself) If it transpires it is just a phase, or they are gay, then it will be a happier child as an outcome for having worked through whatever issues were going on.

Floundering what information were you given about the longer term implications on fertility and health of using puberty blockers?

I'm always extremely uncomfortable hearing the stories of trans kids because they are invariably full of sexist stereotypes.

transgenderreality.com/2015/04/09/the-catalog-of-her-interests-behaviors-and-clothing-choices-on-gender-stereotypes-in-stories-of-transgender-children/

Parents telling their kids they can't do X because X is for girls/boys, and then suddenly their kid decide they want to be the opposite sex.

Flora As my child was well into puberty we unfortunately were too late for the puberty blockers but I have researched them as part of my continuing learning curve on this (before last year) unfamiliar path.

As a former surgical nurse, who actually worked with the first M>F realignment in a major London hospital many moons ago I like to know facts as a) things have changed SO much since then & b) this was/is my child that needed my support which clouded my previous objectivity somewhat as you can imagine! I only say this to show where I am coming from.

The current research shows that puberty blockers are totally reversible, a pause button on the development of the secondary sexual characteristics that are so abhorrent to the child. These are not started until the last possible moment before puberty in the UK with massive amounts of psychological support and counselling before starting for both the child and family (forgive me if you are aware of this but it seems a lot of posters are unfamiliar with the process so doesn't hurt to repeat)

The thing that would have swayed me is that future fertility would be nil if my child committed suicide, which was a real and awful possibility. The rate of suicide attempts is approx 70% in trans teens who are not supported by parents and don't get appropriate counselling and treatment. God knows how many are succesful but it is thought to be a good 40%. The average life expectancy of any trans person is 23 years old due to the high suicide rate and higher risk of murder. (1 in 12)

Each case has to be judged on it's merits, and while possible side effects of any treatment on future fertility are part of the discussion, it would not be a deal breaker if it kept my child alive and they understood the risks.

"he rate of suicide attempts is approx 70% in trans teens who are not supported by parents and don't get appropriate counselling and treatment. God knows how many are succesful but it is thought to be a good 40%. The average life expectancy of any trans person is 23 years old due to the high suicide rate and higher risk of murder. (1 in 12) "

Do you have any sources for these numbers? The 1 in 12 thing is always dragged out, but it's not true: parkthatcar.net/2013/11/20/can-we-stop-quoting-the-1-in-12-statistic-please/

As a boy, Camille was visibly unhappy. She would have tantrums. Getting her dressed in boy’s clothes in the mornings would be almost impossible. At the age of four, Casey recalls, her child started asking “to become a girl”. Her parents took the decision to allow her to wear female clothes. Then they asked their child’s elementary school to start referring to her as Camille. At home they started using female instead of male pronouns. Almost immediately, the tantrums stopped.

I just find it ridiculous to make such a massive change on the whim of a 3 year old. So your child had tantrums between 2 -4? Pretty normal.

Re puberty blockers "things have changed SO much since then... The current research shows that puberty blockers are totally reversible"

The dangers and side-effects of puberty blockers have not disappeared or even mellowed by any means. There was a mention of proposing us puberty blockers because of DD's "early" puberty, but it was hurriedly followed by "Thankfully we don't need them in this case, as they have very serious side effects and carry important risks". This was 6 months ago.

By the way, this is not a subject I have done a lot of research on and some of you here have, so I would like to ask: Have you come across any studies that link being transgender to just being somehow low on sex hormones? This person says that she believed herself FtM all her life, until she started taking oestrogen-based birth control pills by accident.

"My periods started getting heavy again so I went to get birth control. I was extremely busy and actually forgot it even had estrogen in it. But I'm now glad that it did. I would have never taken anything with estrogen because I was 100% sure I was a man. I don't know if I ever had my estrogen checked before, maybe it has been low my whole life. But I have never felt better. In just a couple months I have started to feel ok with being a girl.

This is where I'm at now. I feel just ok with being female. If I had a choice I would have been born a boy, but I wasn't. I hate having huge boobs, but that's why breast reductions exist. I don't really like girly things, and that's ok. There is no right way to be a man or a woman. In a lot of ways I feel like an MTF now. I even contacted my doctor about starting Spiro. If just a little bit of estrogen in some birth control pills can make me sort of ok with being a girl I bet Spiro will make me fully ok with being female."

I suffered from body dysmorphia when puberty hit - I think it's a very natural reaction to both your changing body and the absolute head fuck that is the rewiring of teenage brains.

In an attempt to feel happier and more in control of my life I developed anorexia and dropped down to about 6 stone before being hospitalised. I was utterly convinced that losing another pound would make me happier, that I somehow had excess weight to lose and once it was gone I'd feel "normal", I also self harmed and threatened suicide if someone tried to make me eat. Thankfully my parents and doctors didn't accept my body dysmorphia - they showed me that "feeling normal" isn't really a thing, that everyone feels out of place as a teenager even if they're really good at hiding it, and that actually even if I lost another pound I wouldn't find happiness, because it was my anxiety causing me to be miserable not my 6 stone body.

Body dysmorphia is hell - no wonder 70% of teens with gender dysmorphia attempt suicide - but what are the suicide rates of people who transition and then realise that it wasn't the magic pill to happiness? How does that compare to teens who receive comprehensive support to postpone treatment? And how does it compare to other teens with similar mental health issues?