Let older boys tell girls what turns them on... says man

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Article here

Horrible gaslighty article about how older boys should tell girls in schools what they find attractive in females... to stop 'body shaming'. Because all girls really need to know is how best to attract a man. No mention of older girls going and telling younger boys that not being a sexist dickhead is a good way to attract a woman though.

This from a man who wrote a truly awful and deeply unscientific article a while back about how women who leave their children in daycare are damaging them because men don't leave their children, it's always women.

Obviously the best thing a girl can do is listen to older boys tell her how to win a man and then stay at home and look after the babies. Unsurprisingly, it's causing a bit of a stir.

Yup. Reinforcing the erroneous notion many girls already have that it is about how you look, not who you are or what you do.

Merely trying to replace "thin is good" with "fat is good".

And still about it being all important that your role is to be appealing to boys.

Don't people like him actually think?

Yuck.

How about telling all children that their self worth is not based on looks. That all people are worth more than that and we shouldn't be judging people, esp not on appearance.

Honestly that man disgusts me.

Ergh, that article made me feel quite queasy. How about we stop body shaming by not body shaming?

Ah nothing like telling girls that it is the approval of their male peers that determines their worth.

Or rather not just of their male peers, but also of older boys and men. Hell, why not get the heterosexual male members of staff to tell girls what they find sexually attractive? It is as sensible a suggestion!

I like your thinking TBR.

Perhaps they could do baseline attractiveness scores as girls enter KS2, 3 & 4 in order to measure their progress in achieving the preferred body shape/ personality type. I'm sure the information will be useful to further education, prospective employers and even prospective partners.

Girls are aware of the body shape that men supposedly find attractive from the wide range of sexualised images of more curvaceous women put on public display in the form of lads' mags and similar and the way women with that body shape are referred to and treated.

If we dispense with the notion that what goes on in the head of a thirteen year old is that their body should be there to attract boys, might it be that girls in education have other aspirations like, well, education and a journalism career. And that to be treated seriously and like a person you should have as close to the male body as possible (height and no visible curves), boys telling girls tha 'pear shaped' with plump arse and hips is sexy might only reinforce girls' dieting so they can be thin like the female journalists he is complaining about?

Except that might involve listening to girls and people who work with women who issues with self image, societal messages and eating disorders, rather than people who assume girls want to sexually objectify themselves, rather than it being something they are attempting to escape.

Blech. It's telling boys that their opinions on girls' bodies are legitimate and should be paid attention to, and it's telling girls that they should really listen to boys on what makes their bodies attractive to those boys. Nope, nope nope. A world of nope.

I also feel sorry for the smiling man sat with the girls who are writing, who is not Dr Sigman. Presumably he is a teacher helping students with work, and will be less than thrilled to have his picture in an article telling people that girls should be told about what makes their bodies sexy.

you make a very good point almondcakes. my anorexia as a teenager wasn't related to being attractive to boys, but about being conditioned to believe that women shouldn't have needs, including food, so to be taken seriously you could demonstrate no "weakness" (such as needing sustenance in the form of food).

The world is going to hell in a handcart.

petula - a lot of women and girls (and boys) relate teenage anorexia to not wanting to grow up, too. No boobs, no periods. Oh joy.

Yes, let the average 16 year old boy tell younger girls what women should look like.

I imagine they'd say nearly anorexic, possibly drugged woman with massive fake breasts. That's the average woman working in the pornography industry right?

What a lovely world he lives in.

“Boys don’t have in any way near as rigid a view on what an attractive figure should be and they value many other physical qualities, including eyes, hair, and body language.”

Does he think women are just really really stupid? We're so susceptible to the ideas of how a woman should look, but magically boys are unaffected? They can see umpteen pornographic images of women or just the average barely clothes woman selling deodorant and not be affected by that?

Yep. Women are really stupid. And rigid. Poor, silly, narrow-minded things.

Isn't it lovely how men aren't narrow minded? They value not only some physical attributes, but also, other physical attributes!

Some of them even believe women are people. But we probably needn't worry about those.

I wasn't as horrified by that article as I expected to be, and I think there is a kernel of something valuable in there.

I reject his central premise that somehow men wading into body self image issues will somehow make the problem magically go away.

However, and I'm thinking in the wider context of sex/relationship education here, I don't think it would hurt for any young person to grow up with an expectation that sometimes some people will find them attractive- and in more ways that just the physical.

A couple of caveats though:
-Discussion of attractive traits has to go both ways.
-An earnest deconstruction on how much what the media projects as beautiful is mostly bullshit and almost always trying to sell you something.

I think that article fails as it is just as significant that all young people need to analyse these things rather than men being custodians of what women should or shouldn't be like.

(Thought just occurs to me, we should ban any and all marketing that attempts to illicit a fear response to push sales)

I disagree really strongly, dervel.

What women could possibly grow up without knowing that people will sometimes find them attractive - and often in ways they don't like and didn't invite?

We are constantly bombarded with those messages that some people find us attractive - often in ways we don't like and didn't invite. A friend of mine is severely physically disabled and constantly has people tell her how 'pretty' her non-functioning eyes are. Cos, you know, at least she looks great, eh?

People on here talk about getting to a certain age and becoming 'invisible', but if you look at any casual conversation about older women in the public eye, it will include patronizing comments along the lines of 'oh, but you're still quite attractive love'.

I don't think anyone should be taught that sexual attractiveness is something to be expected, either. As well as it coming across as unwelcome attention (as I'm suggesting above), it comes too close to the idea that we should all expect sex as a right, which is something I feel really uncomfortable about.

'Boys in 'Boys Value Eyes' shocker'

What does this eejit have a Doctorate in? Patriarchal BS?

It's also forcing lesbians who probably don't give two fucks about the boys in school to learn about attractiveness form a male POV.

Be fair... he wasn't saying it was all about the way a girl looks.

'“It would be helpful for them to explain that what they find attractive is not just physical qualities but also qualities like caring, the sound of a girl’s voice and her body language. '

Yeah, right. 'Caring', and you've got to have a nice voice and move well too. . FFS.

indeed though i am sure they find themselves told that as a matter of course too sadly