Feminism for women of colour...

[AnotherEpisode]

As a black woman, I quite often feel sidelined within feminism.

I don't feel feminism addresses the difficulties faced by women of colour in western societies and quite often I feel I am drawn to race issues over feminist issues because of this.

I absolutely have more difficulties in this society because of the colour of my skin than I do because of my sex.

I feel that the lack of understanding towards racism amongst feminist circles gives me a stance of one over the other in which racism usually wins, which is unfortunate really!

This article, although written in a strong, comical and sometimes rude tone, gives a good insight!

thegrio.com/2015/02/23/patricia-arquette-blacks-gays-white-women/

Not sure why I'm posting but I'm interested in a wider perspective especially people's thoughts on the article!

Oh how witty. It's really not difficult in a law office to spot which are the solicitors which are the unqualified support/ background staff and which are the cleaners regardless of age, race, or gender. I appreciate of course that doesn't fit with your unshakeable belief in all women being oppressed at all times.

Perhaps if you're being mistaken for a member of the cleaning staff at a keynote event you should think about dressing a bit more smartly?

Thank you station for suggesting that woc from this thread dress in a more professional manner. There I was turning up to work in tracky bottoms and misshapen t-shirts carrying a mop shocked I was being misstaken for a cleaner. It is so reassuring that I and everyone else on this thread is too pig thick to dress the part. So thank you for the advice, it was such out of the box thinking.

It is good to know that my life experiences can be casually dismissed and corrected by those who know better.

No no, Buffy and Coffee... all those women who have reported that they are mistaken for admin/cleaners/someone other than who they are, are obviously dressing like cleaners.... Must be the pinny and carpet slippers that give it away!

Whereas, friends in law firms who are women, PoC or both who have been mistaken for paralegals or admin are just lying. Lying right down to their Louboutins.

Why did this amazing, educational and informative thread descend to this? Oh yeah, I see why....

I don't care as such anymore, it's a useful test to see how people treat others they deem beneath them.

However it is funny that 500+ posts later and there are posters querying that racism and sexism are real and in their opinion which is the final arbiter of good sense this stuff never happens!

True enough, Coffee.

Anyone who goes through life not seeing sexism and racism as the endemic problems they are obviously has HUGE white and/or male privilege or is just too stupid and blind to notice.

Anyway, back to watching and learning, having called out the 'I'm all right, Jack' bullshit which is about all I can contribute here

Anyway it's good to know your place.

Your opinions and life experiences are just a manifestation of that chip on your shoulder.

How dare you expect someone to trust that as an adult you should know your own mind and can coherently describe anecdotes from your own life.

Those stereotypes are there for a reason. They are 100% accurate. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just a pc whinger.

Yes well it's always good to know that when you treated differently because of race or gender you should look to yourself to see what you did wrong. Or you could just remenber my Grandparents advice

Oh dear - I knew it would be me that broke the thread.

It's my fault - I said "Regardless of your profession", and evidently that's not necessarily correct.

But going back to scientists - lets say you're in a building where you know there are scientists (not exactly known for sartorial elegance), among many other disciplines -

• You see a middle aged, overweight, slightly scruffy, white man - what do you assume about his role?

• You see a middle aged, overweight, slightly scruffy, black woman - what do you assume about her role?

I've thrown weight in there as I think its another 'low status' marker for black women, but no such thing for white men. (Or maybe I'm just self conscious about it.)

I Google people I am meeting for the first time precisely this reason.

Actually, reading about the being mistaken for cleaners has reminded of something I witnessed when I was first starting down my current career route.

I was bottom of the heap junior (still am really, thanks maternity leave!), and was helping one of my senior supervisors set up a small room for a teaching session. We were both about the same age due to my late start in life, she was by far dressed/groomed more smartly although I was reasonably smart myself, and she was black, I'm white.

One of the speakers we were hosting was ushered into the room, and immediately started introducing himself to me. He obviously thought I was 'in charge', and worse, it was as if he didn't even see my supervisor, literally looked straight through her as if she were invisible.

I was embarrassed (and very shy/unconfident those days), and I muttered some desperate excuse to get myself out of the room and then left, so I have no idea how they resolved it. I'd forgotten all about it. Unfortunately for her, she definitely didn't imagine it happening, although it seems some people would tell her she did.

My across-the-street neighbor, who is African American, told me that a man came to her door on some business or other and when she answered, he said "Is the lady of the house at home?"

peckham I was thinking about your scenario and to me the issue is not what you assume but the fact that a lot of people don't like owning their opinions. What I mean is you can think whatever you like and within the bounds of social and legal norms do what you like. But what I have noticed if that people often get incredibly angry when people infer things about their personality based in their action / opinions.

So if in a corporate environment you "know" that the senior people are dressed smartly ergo you would never knowingly assume a woc is a junior or a cleaner therefore you extrapolate this scenario never happens therefore the complainants are lying. End of.
The anger comes when the complainants infers that you are a closed minded know it all.
So my thinking is whatever you assume about the lecturers in peckham's example you need to be prepared to acknowledge that you have bias and that it is not always harmless no matter your intentions. You have to own it. And you have to allow other people to have their opinion in response.

In that spirit I own that I coffee judge people who like Russell brand and Jeremy clarkson. It is narrow minded of me and unfair but I do try not to let it do any serious damage.

This thread is useful insofar that I am starting to see the end result of my , harmless to me at least , biases.

Just for a change from all the whingeing...

I'm not really a football fan but today I watched MOTD2 extra. Well technically I was in the living room while DH watched it. But I saw something amazing.

Basically, it's just four peoeple talking about football - today the four people were -

• Mark Chapman - white middle aged presenter

• Steve Wilson - another niddle aged white guy

• Trevor Sinclair - A big hunk of georgeousness An ex-player

• Eni Aluko - professional (black) female player for Chelsea and England

What was remarkable was the respect with which they treated Eni Aluko -

• They let her speak at length on each discussion point

• They didn't speak over her

• They didn't interrupt her (much)

• their responses showed that they had listened to what she said.

Basically it was the complete opposite to what a woman of colour would normally expect with a group of men - and this was on a football programme!

iPlayer link

And DH said that everything she said made perfect sense. The only thing I noticed was that whereas the men felt confident enough to have a little joke now and again, Eni's answers were always 100% straight down the line - so not completely part of the club just yet I guess.

But anyway, this left me a tiny bit cheered - basically if you are a black elite sportswoman who gets the opportunity to objectively demonstrate her competence in public every week, then you might get treated with respect.

So that's a start, isn't it?

That just leaves business, science, engineering, education, politics, healthcare...

I am glad about Eni Aluko.

That's a good point about the differing impact of weight on status perception.

Still, we believe your work experiences. Why don't you do others the same courtesy, instead of always pouring on the scorn?

This is why I often find men easier at work. Lots of men have been through so much diversity and inclusivity training in a corporate environment that they are at pains not to talk over you and be dismissive etc. It's not 100% but in corporates it is noticeable to me.

However for women I feel like it is assumed that they will know how to behave just because. Hence why I often find white women no matter their seniority are significantly ruder to me than white men in bog standard office scenarios.

In my own experience I have never had any training or conversations about diversity and communication beyond the standard welcome pack even though I have had to manage other people. Admittedly management is a very small part of my job it was just assumed that my soft skills were up to scratch.

I think it comes back to something popping said up thread- all the men are black and all the women are white.

But my experiences are ridiculed , not believed. I posted I had not experienced this and why not. Buffy's response was then just pouring scorn on that.