Feminism for women of colour...

[AnotherEpisode]

As a black woman, I quite often feel sidelined within feminism.

I don't feel feminism addresses the difficulties faced by women of colour in western societies and quite often I feel I am drawn to race issues over feminist issues because of this.

I absolutely have more difficulties in this society because of the colour of my skin than I do because of my sex.

I feel that the lack of understanding towards racism amongst feminist circles gives me a stance of one over the other in which racism usually wins, which is unfortunate really!

This article, although written in a strong, comical and sometimes rude tone, gives a good insight!

thegrio.com/2015/02/23/patricia-arquette-blacks-gays-white-women/

Not sure why I'm posting but I'm interested in a wider perspective especially people's thoughts on the article!

Thank you Buffy. I'll think of a response - I'm busy in work at the moment and so it might take some time. Here's a joke to ponder about in the meantime...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it."

"Why shouldn't I?" he asked.

"Well, there's so much to live for!"

"Like what?"

"Are you religious?"

He said, "Yes."

I said, "Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

"Christian."

"Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

"Protestant."

"Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

"Baptist."

"Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

"Baptist Church of God."

"Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"

"Reformed Baptist Church of God."

"Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"

He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."

I said: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.

Well exactly buffy. And it sounds as though those are exactly the experiences of WOC have experienced from white feminists, which is why we are so keen to say actually no, that's not ok, I will examine my behaviour and acknowledge I've got it wrong. But anyway, I don't want to turn this into white feminists patting each other on the back, nor to focus on a goader.

Excellent - one less thing to do. My secretary is off this afternoon, so that definitely helps.

There are many interesting points that I shall take on board on this thread. It seems that there are many things that MOC could do to assist WOC even if only by adjusting attitudes and behaviour. Something which I will be very aware of from now on.

I know that some people get angry when a man declares their sex whilst others get angry when they don't, hopefully I haven't annoyed anyone by doing so.

Cadno is the a point you're trying to make or something you'd like to discuss?
If there is please let us know, as many have said on here this thread is not a place for goadiness and veiled insults but a place for discourse and hopefully better understanding for us all.
If on the other hand the only reason you are here is to see if you can get a rise out some women, then maybe your energies would be better employed elsewhere.

The attitudes of some MOC could do with some adjustment Greys (also not annoyed with you), think that when speaking about issues of race, our gender also has to come into play yet again it is about having an open and honest discourse, listening and taking on board what both parties are saying.
For me one of my biggest defenders has been my own Grandfather, he believes in equality for all and although he was bought up in the Jamaican countryside with a basic education he one of the smartest and savvy people you could hope to meet (with a finely honed bullshit detector) and has supported and encouraged every single member of my family to be independent, free thinking and tolerant not just the female members. He also gave me the best bit of advise.
Never say "that person dislikes /thinks less of me because I'm woman", always say "that person dislikes/thinks less of me because they're an arsehole" to do otherwise makes it seems like you had a part to play in your own oppression.

Wow this thread has moved on a lot.

I love your grandfather's advice Awa.

Moc do need an attitude adjustment as do woc ourselves and I count myself amongst that group. I truly believed that racism affected other people who were 99% of the time Moc. Therefore I could merrily assume the absence of woc in my working environment just proved how special and hard working I was. I think the UK is a lot better than in the US and as such I didn't care to notice where there real issues.

In the interests of fairness I will also have to quote my grandmother on the issue of racism. "All being a racist means is you see better than you think"

Can we have thread just for your granddads sayings? These are great.

My Grandparents are brilliant my Grandad in particular is hilarious and has opinions on everything. They have always been supportive and offered encouragement to all of us, I love them to bits.

Love those sayings.

All I can say is if you want a quick, crude and thoroughly depressing snapshot view of how MOC and WOC can pull each other down like crabs in a bucket, read the comments on mediatakeout.com (I know, I know, but it's addictive).

A lurker here, wanting to thank you all for this thread. It has changed the way I think.

I didn't "see" racism like I can see sexism (I know, from my privileged position, the view from here is obscure), so the lack of POC in my workplace was because they are a minority, they can't be everywhere, and, well, everyone knows racism is bad, so how can it really be a widespread issue, outside of a few bigots? Whereas I just have to look in my kids' socks drawers to see evidence of sexist segregation. So, the lack of women in my workplace was obviously because of a ton of blatant institutional and structural barriers, unconscious bias, the odd out and out sexist etc, and the absent POC were just elsewhere, they'd made different choices.

Ahem.
Sorry.

I'm not saying I "see" it all now, but I feel like an idiot, and I see that there is a huge swathe of stuff I haven't seen, don't see, need to work on seeing. And I see the lack of POC in my workplace as a big problem, and will try to understand what is going on, and I will speak up about it being a problem. And I will keep listening and reading, and learning to just stop and think.

Crescent I was the opposite. I never felt racism I was pretty insulated until my 20s and I thought sexism was my main battle. And I would have argued that racism in the work place was rare. But now I am older and (ahem) wiser I see the absence of woc and I cannot rationalise it. Those woc were on the graduate schemes and 10 years later they have disappeared and I cannot believe that I am that special and they were not.
And I always felt that bnp and edl were not part of my world so I could happily ignore it as something that happened to other people somewhere else.

Now with my advancing age I find that in the work place men are easier for me to deal with than white women who seem to be down right uncomfortable that I am there at all. But equally I see men and women very much adhering to a narrative that says this is my place and what I ought to be doing.

another interesting blog post that popped into my feed this morning, specifically on black british feminism:

mediadiversified.org/2015/03/13/i-too-am-black-and-a-feminist-on-the-importance-of-black-british-feminism/

Petula that was an Interesting article. I would have thought the reason American voices are louder is simply because African Americans have a lot more shared characteristics and thus solutions they can agree on. In the UK black women (or their parents) can come from a variety of different countries, speak different languages and follow different religions or none. This thread alone has shown that, I wouldn't hope or expect to have coherent voices coming out of that.

Whodrank - Agree completely.

Yes that makes sense - it's the same thing of not expecting one WOC to speak for all and how imperative it is to hear and make room for more WOC. It made me think of the Audre lorde quote upthread re her experience of the first feminist book fair in London where british WOC feminists were absent as ignored/excluded/forgotten/not allowed space by white feminists.

And having agreed with the point about Black British being different to African-American...

Errm - here's an American report where nearly all the issues are relevant here as well. For me particularly the bit about having to prove yourself over and over again -

Double Jeopardy - Gender Bias Against Women of Color in Science

And here's the easy to read newspaper summary

Black and Latina women scientists sometimes mistaken for janitors

Regardless of your profession, I'm sure we all have hilarious anecdotes about being mistaken for cleaners

I haven't been mistaken in a work situation for anything other than what I am. Probably because both men and women in my profession are expected to look the part. And I'm white which obviously helps.