Encouraging girls to do Physics, Technology, Engineering and Maths. Is it worth it

[rationaloptimist123]

Only 2% of British girls are taking A'level Physics. This means that a significant number of high paying career options are going to be closed to them in 5, 10, 15 years time. Does this concern anyone else?

The 2% physics thing can be slightly misleading as it's not essential to take physics to get an engineering degree or job. I would say that most do but there are other avenues and know female engineers that never took A level physics.

I work in a STEM field and am also an ambassador. Sadly it's not been as successful as hoped but I have seen a steady but slow increase in female engineers over the last 15 years. Im sure this trend will continue, which is very positive.

The trouble with some STEM fields is that interest in the UK is low, even for males. Of the tiny number of people initially interested only a small percentage of those will either finish their degree or stay in the industry. Female engineers are similar but the pool is even smaller from the outset. If the numbers ever reach the same as males then there will still not be enough engineers in the UK, hence the shift to outsourcing and large numbers of highly skilled immigrants.

I do think a big part of a problem, is what 15 year old girl would want to spend 6 hours a week alone in the company of the oiks that are boys of that age. Sit next to one? Have one as a lab partner? You have to know what the future holds to step away from what your friends are doing.

But to answer the OP, of course it's worth it. The engineering industry is better for having an increasing female representation.

I already work with some brilliant females who have quite literally made history. More please!

Of the 10 females out of 100 on my engineering degree only 1 actually went to work as an engineer, which is pretty sad really.

As a physics teacher, I think that parental expectations seem to have a massive impact, and that recruitment for stem subjects needs to improve across the board. In particular, most students have never even considered engineering as a career option. There are programmes out there to try to change that, but they generally rely on teachers passing on the information. I had never even heard of engineering as a degree until I started uni studying maths and physics. Careers advice in schools needs a massive overhaul - less focus on getting kids in to high profile universities, more focus on helping kids choose the right subject for them.

mushy, you're definitely right about how had it is attracting good teachers. Some of that is public perception tho. When I quit engineering to teach, I was told the following:

You're too clever to be a teacher
You'll earn more as an engineer
Well its easier for women to have kids if they're teachers (wasn't even in a relationship at the time)

Of those, only the money one is true - my family still keep sending me job adverts that I'm more that qualified for, with salaries of 2 - 3 times what I earn now.

I wonder if this really needs addressing in school careers on a national, structured basis. Like part of the curriculum. At 13, 15 and 17. Schools have to hold a number of careers lessons where they give both the overview of STEM opportunities and some case studies/visits, and are measured on the takeup of science/maths/technology GCSEs, A levels and apprenticeships. YP are told in so many words that this is a growth sector and has good employment prospects, it isn't difficult or only for boys or dirty. Frankly the government and industry should fund it.

A lot of STEM jobs aren't public facing and so they are invisible to a big section of the community.

X post with you Jessica85 - completely agree. There are lots of great initiatives if only they were joined up.

I would tend to agree. Jessica mentioned earlier that schools are poor but this is very dependent on where you live.

I've been visiting schools for most of my career, either in conjunction with STEMNET or with my local education business partnership. The purpose has soley been to provide students with career information or engaging hands-on activities (all engineering related).

The trouble is, my local education business partnership is a charity. If the government dedicated some funding to better careers advice in general it would provide more consistent information, as opposed to relying on charities.

A lot of STEM jobs aren't public facing and so they are invisible to a big section of the community.

True but ironically, without STEM work our current lives as we know them would cease to exist!

Wow. Great debate. Thank you for all the contributions.

Our daughter goes to a wonderful single sex state school which actually has the highest uptake of Maths A'level in the country. Our sons go to the equivalent boys school nearby.

Despite some absolutely sterling efforts (ambassadors, inspirational guest speakers, trips, visits, wonderful teachers in all the subjects at both schools), the A'level choices across both schools largely reflect the gender balance in the graph posted by noblegiraffe - with boys over-represented in computing, physics, maths and economics and girls dominating in drama, sociology and art.

In fact the Boys school is going to allow girls into the sixth form because they have such a low uptake of boys doing languages and art at A'level.

Of course as parents you want your children to follow their own dreams and do what they have a passion for. My DH was "strongly encouraged" by his dad to study sciences. He resented this as a teenager but is glad of it now.

The girls school shared an amazing fact - every science or maths A'level increases your earnings at the age of 30 by 10%. Britain's biggest boom industries have been technology and finance. It's those sectors that have the highest paid jobs.

However we're worried that all our "encouragement" could teeter on the brink of having an impact opposite to the one intended - teenage girls rolling their eyes rather than being inspired. My DH in particular is worried not sounding like his dad with our daughter (13).

Any specific advice for parents?

EBear -was the BBC event good? I looked at going but it looked from the blurb like a thinly disguised recruitment event.

My daughter is a young teen - but I would be surprised if she didn't take at least a few science A-Levels.

A bit like boosting literacy by regularly reading to your DC - I think she has the making of a great science child since we've always had 'how things work' chat - and we play computer games as a family (including 'vintage' games where the physics engine is much more visible).

And Lego. Melt Lego Friends in a great pyre and blend it into Lego City (and give the hairdressers up&down chairs, and the pony farm a tractor).

As others have mentioned, I think parents have a massive influence. My dd (6) recently started a computer class after school. I was so disappointed to see that the class Is full of boys, with the girls outnumbered 5:1.
When I was in school, very bright girls, who went on to have wonderful careers, were not encouraged to study STEM subjects. They were not considered relevant. I suspect a lot of parents (subconsciously) begin this process at a very early age. Chilidrens talents need to be encouraged and nurtured from an early age and I suspect this is where we are loosing a lot of great potential.

I think increasing gender stereotyping from babies doesn't help. Girls like x, boys like y. Boys doing science and maths, girls doing arts, or if they do do science, it's with the intention of entering a nurturing career like medicine, is just an extension of that gender separation.

stealthsquiggle - it was partly a recruitment event; they have about 150 roles to fill over the next year, and they had HR people there to talk to. But that was almost incidental (though some people were actively job-hunting) - it was primarily about networking and development, and it was really interesting. There was a lot about how the BBC does various things, as they have so much more online and interactive content these days. There was a very good session on self-confidence and self-belief and confidence-robbers and what you can do about it, and Kate Russell (presents Click) spoke really well on some of the issues around women in STEM. Plus I always appreciate meeting other women in tech - it's not just me!

Anyway, they're planning to run another couple of sessions some point, and I would recommend them. (My main reason for going was to have a nose at the BBC offices...)

PhD physicist here. I was state comp educated, both mixed (11-13) then single sex (13-18) and had a heck of a shock at uni when I met about 50% private and about another 20% grammar students who had a completely different mindset to me. So school isn't the whole picture. However I refused to let go of my goals and have been happily working as a researcher for 20-odd years. I'd love to be a STEM ambassador if I could work it round the childcare. We had about a fifth girls at undergraduate level and in comparison with trixymalixy above, pretty much all of us did postgraduate study and one became a Prof at 36. However I don't think she ever has had children. As usual the children issue is key to science being attractive. I always point to my field (medical physics) as a good one as NHS maternity leave packages are great, and you can easily pickup again afterward if you want to.

Thanks, Ebear. I shall see if I can find a "let me know when the next one is" link somewhere to sign up. I think I got put off by the "submit your CV" bit as I'm definitely not job hunting and, disgracefully, don't even have an up to date CV

It really pisses me off that the emphasis is on girls/women themselves to redress labour market segregation by choosing to do stem.

That will not solve the problem.

What we really need to concentrate on is encouraging boys to go into the 5 'C's (cleaning, catering, caring, cashiering, childcare) and similar. These jobs will always need doing and will always be poorly paid and low status as long as they are predominately done by women.

I think it is worse now than ever as Micah said,.
my DD is the only girl in her year of a big comp doing engineering. the only girl. in 2015.

Jackieharris great idea - will definitely propel the UK to the very top of the economic league tables. Let's all study catering, cleaning, caring, cashering and childcare with added Welsh, sociology, drama and art. The Chinese and Indians will be quaking in their boots.

We'll just need to find a way to pay for all the super high-paid catering and caring jobs if we don't have enough scientists, engineers and financiers to actually generate revenue.

Really great suggestion though.

The gender bias point is interesting ie boys guided towards science, girls towards arts subjects. I am seeing it from both sides in practice here at the moment.

My DS Yr 13 is doing Art Textiles - is the only boy in his group, was the only boy in his group at GCSE too, has applied for Art Foundation but was warned by one of the tutors that he was likely to be one of very few boys - he doesn't care, he just wants to pursue the subject he is interested in. When other people ask him about his choice of subjects and potential future career, I often feel they are somewhat disparaging about a male going into the arts - (almost as if it is not 'manly' enough) but if that is where his talent lies, why not?

Similarly my DD Yr12 (Chem, Physics, Maths, FM) has in the past been warned that there might not be many girls in her groups - but why do people feel they need to flag that up, surely that is an unnecessary deterrence? She is not bothered whether the people sitting next to her are male or female, she just wants them to be interesting to talk to and interested in the subject.

I do think there is still a lot of subconscious gender stereo typing going on at all levels in society. As a parent I have tried to keep an open mind about what my children might choose as school subjects and as careers - I encouraged them both to do triple science, languages and arts subjects as GCSE so they kept their options open for A level, but let them choose their A level subjects (although reiterated the point about choosing a good combination of subjects so as to keep as many degree options open as possible) and we are lucky in that within our family we have examples of women in STEM.

It really pisses me off that the emphasis is on girls/women themselves to redress labour market segregation by choosing to do stem.

We've got a skills shortage in STEM areas, which is likely to get worse over the next few years. We need to be encouraging everyone to consider STEM careers, girls and boys.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't also encourage boys to look at cleaning and caring careers, but I think a bigger pool of STEM candidates would have more effect on our economy into the future.

Those who want to consider STEMNET as an ambassador - you have to have an induction and a DBS (formerly CRB) check. You then have to do at least one ambassador event and one networking event a year. IME, the people who do weekly sessions are more likely to be retired people - working people are more able to do one-off events like careers talks, interview practice, science days. Some careers events happen in the evening - it's not always during the school day. But it depends on you and your employer (some employers are more active in there support, and may allow on-going support with a local school, for example.) There's a wide range of things which go on, so whatever branch if STEM your interests lie in, and whatever time you can spare, there's probably something you can do.

Similarly my DD Yr12 (Chem, Physics, Maths, FM) has in the past been warned that there might not be many girls in her groups - but why do people feel they need to flag that up, surely that is an unnecessary deterrence?

Yes, it has been shown to actively put some people off. It's not going to matter to those who are really determined, but it's the ones who are less sure that we should be encouraging rather than putting off.

Boys doing childcare, cleaning etc won't push up the pay.