Any good examples to help point out sexism to my DH?

[BertieBotts]

As he announced this evening that I am "just looking for sexism everywhere" (Nope, not looking, it just is there) and he was upset that I saw the world as such a black dark evil place (I don't).

I'm not particularly interested in explanations of privilege like the video game difficulty setting thing, just examples that he will "get". I used the example that a man might be upset if a man he knows wants to date his sister whereas a woman would never be upset at a woman wanting to date her brother, unless she thought the woman was a total psychopath. Well, that didn't work because he has 3 sisters, all an entire generation older than him so of course they have been overprotective and ridiculous over every GF he has ever had So I called "Friends" and he started making up arguments.

He gets the "big stuff", but he doesn't see the smaller, everyday type of feminism, and that's what I'd like to open his eyes to if possible. I know that a lot of it is just that it's invisible to him because it happens so often to women that we don't mention it and men, especially if they don't do it, don't realise that it's happening at all.

The australian presenter who wore the same suit everyday for a year!! While his female co presenter continued to receive emails wrt her clothing every day. Not one viewer noticed or commented that he wore the same suit every day.

I knew I wasn't imagining it! I started the thread I won't claim that it was this which inspired the everyday sexism blog, but I remember thinking at the time that it was totally astounding and would be a good idea for a blog.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1172366-What-acts-of-sexism-have-you-encountered-today

I had a look at the site but it mostly seems to be teenage girls posting now, which is good, but not so relevant to our lives. Perhaps if we ever have a daughter. I like the look of the book though and will probably order it for myself. He doesn't really read but maybe I can read bits of it. If nothing else it will be handy to bonk him on the head with whenever he ignores sexism Pavlovian training!

If you have children, do people say he is " so good" for looking after them for a day or putting them to bed? Do they say the same to you?
Do people expect you to remember birthdays etc for his side of the family?
Look at TV programmes - how often are bosses and random background characters women?

It really is the little things though! If you speak your mind as a woman you're awkward or aggressive. If you challenge a man's bad behaviour you're a man-hater!

My solicitor (male) told me it was "important that [my] dd not become a man hater". I was floored. Id said nothing negative about even one man, ie, my x. I had detailed some of his behaviour to me in the past, but without tears or drama. Quite dispassionately i told my male solicitor my x had tried to strangle me and that he was determined not to pay maintenance.

I told the solicitor it was unlikely my dd would end up a manhater as my father brothers etc all behaved WELL and her father was not the one and only ambassador for men. I told him also that i would do my best to make sure my son didnt become a misogynist.
Solicitor looked ar me like id chained myself to his desk.

Bertie, is he east german by any chance? The communist regime was awful, obviously, but very big on gender parity, which might influence his attitude.

(just as an aside, Germany may not be top in terms of overall political equality but damn, Angela Merkel is making a huge contribution to how women are seen on the international stage -- the strongest leader in Europe right now and pictured as the only one who can stand up to Putin. But perhaps point out to your husband how rare she is!)

Perhaps remind him that Berlusconi called Merkel an "unfuckable lardass".

Yes and apparently Putin, knowing she has a fear of dogs, would bring his dogs in whenever they met. Assholes.

Discuss with him how the Daily Mail writes about women - derogatory comments about their shape, weight, looks, spending habits working/child bearing choices, ad infinitum. They wouldn't write about men in a similar way.

Assumptions about jobs - eg that a Doctor will be a man.

The recent story about a female pilot

The way that a lot of society perceives women who use the title Ms and how women always have to specify whether they are a Miss/Mrs/Ms. Men do not have to suffer this.

The way that a lot of men continue to behave like single men when they are fathers and that their employers assume that they have a female partner at home to pick up all the domestic stuff.

Many men carry on with hobbies and nights out/weekends away while assuming that their DW will look after the DCs.

Oh yes, Angela Merkel. Lots of stories commenting on her looks, weight and choice of clothes. There's probably more written about AM on these topics, than all of the other EU leaders put together.

How about sport- watch a sports bulletin. How much is female?

Jeffrey!

I hope you then changed solicitors.

who in your family is the default carer if one of the DC is sick and needs to be off school - is it your or his employer who's expected to suck it up?

girl who takes charge - bossy
boy ditto - leader

Oh no, he's English :) He is amazed by the kindergarten's attitude towards him - it's annoying, actually, they will actively avoid giving him any useful information which means if he does pick ups for a few days I don't get to hear about things. He's not the only dad who picks up/drops off either!

I think my issue is that the things which are clear he notices, and the things which are more muddy but totally obvious to me, aren't to him. Because, oh, well the Daily Mail is a terrible paper, or that bloke is just an arsehole, or those men who don't do housework are bad husbands. He's seeing individual incidents of dealing with sexist/arsehole people, not the whole pattern which shows how endemic sexism is.

Maybe I'm asking too much?

This thread has helped, actually, by reminding me how much he does get. I don't do birthdays for his family, he tends to take time off work if DC is ill (it's paid here anyway though which is nice :))

Ask if he ever thinks about women drivers in a derogatory way, i.e. 'typical woman driver!'

Not just the daily mail, Bertie...

Analysis of why women make the front page (NB being royal or being a victim of crime is a common theme)

womeninjournalism.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Seen_but_not_heard.pdf

The fact he feels he can claim to know better than you about how women are treated is sexism in action. Do you devalue his viewpoints on things he clearly knows more about? How can he claim to understand what being a woman is like?

Cailindana makes a good point. I would not presume that I knew about a black person's experience of racism in a particular circumstance, as I am not black. I would have to believe what they told me about their experience. Surely an intelligent male would come to a similar conculsion about a woman's experiences.

I think 'little' things can easily be invisible if you're not the victim of the intended discrimination, especially when that discrimination is so culturally embedded.

Playing devil's avocado for a minute, you say he notices individual instances of sexism/arsehole-ness, what is it that you would like to follow on from him joining up the dots? Challenging these things when he sees them, or just being able to listen to you rant and agree/support you in your frustration?

Yep I think just support really. TBH the whole thing started because I saw something in a cartoon series that he had introduced to DS and I hadn't seen and had assumed because DH thought it was OK that it would be suitable for a six year old, in my opinion it wasn't. So sort of lack of awareness.

There was also a thing where he saw an article on 9gag about "things my rapist said to me" and decided to read them out to me because he thought it was funny/shocking/unbelievable and didn't stop to think for one second that it might be a touch more upsetting for me than for him. Some of them were stuff that you might say in the context of a loving/consensual sexual relationship or encounter, which he found the most surprising and I found the most upsetting. That is the kind of thing that astounds me, most of the time he is fine and supportive of stuff but then he shows that he so spectacularly doesn't get it that it's like the bottom drops out of the world.

he saw an article on 9gag about "things my rapist said to me" and decided to read them out to me

Not good Bertie . On the other hand, I think that awareness of the depth that sexism is entrenched within society is going to be an ongoing learning process for your H, just as it is for all of us.

Have another look at a newspaper and see how men and women are reported on in violent crime. Men have been reported as 'driven' to kill a woman due to jealousy and women, well a man can beat her up every day for years and it is reported as murder.

Women who are criminals are also vilified more than men.

Myra Hindley has been portrayed as worse than Ian Brady.
Maxine Carr - is she really so evil? Yes she lied about her boyfriend's whereabouts but she didn't actually kill anyone. No one knows if she knew about the murder, at the time she was hundreds of miles away so possibly not.
Fred and Rose West.

The Reva Steenkamp (?sp) murder, how many people knew her name for days later as it was all reported in terms of Pistorius.

Is it possible for men to buy "girlfriend cut" jeans, I wonder?

Young girls are constantly appraised on their looks or on what they're wearing. Both by adults known to them and 'kindly' strangers.

yeh, programmes aimed at women are almost niche market. programmes aimed at mainly men are default.

And let us not forget that it's become increasingly common for women to experience threats of sexual violence if they dare to speak out about anything. Men don't get the same reaction.