Rape culture in action. Massive Trigger Warning

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Warning: There is a brutal rape described in the opening paragraphs. So please self-care.

The article is from RollingStone and is about the systematic erasure and cover-up of womens rape and sexual assault experiences at the University of Virginia. It is quite long but also very detailed.

From 'friends' to officials these women are encouraged to forget. They are paralysed by lack of information, informed choices and support even from those who are seemingly trying to help.

The article really doesn't pull any punches and describes really well how women's experiences are minimised. It also shows how rapists aren't monsters. They live and function (sometimes even heroically) in the community. It shows how they do plan their rapes (sometimes quite chillingly). How they feel entitled to rape these women and how they don't see it as a big deal. They don't expect to get caught. They may not even see it as rape or simply just don't care.

Just in case anyone thinks women aren't oppressed. Or feminism has gone too far. Or rape culture doesn't exist.

It's so frightening.

I also think it should be highlighted and the University of Virginia named. Because they have gone to great lengths to silence the voices of these women over decades.

Horrific. Even more horrific are some of the apologist comments.

Well that was a traumatising read.

There does seem to be an issue with sexual violence in the US education system - on another thread a poster linked about boys sexually assaulting each other as part of these weird ritual things and I have read many times about sexual assault & rape in high schools and of course the many stories recently about universities.

I don't think it is as bad here for student on student assault - I do think that a girl who was brutally gang raped at university in the UK would be very likely to go to the police and I don't remember anyone talking about it happening as a "thing", I think the university and school situation in the UK is reflective of across society - the culture of ritualised stuff that you have to do just isn't there - assaults are more likely between two people who know each other etc.

Of course that's not to say that we don't have problems just that our worst failures seem to be not in universities but around children and young people - there are parallels with institutions covering things up, silencing victims etc.

So the question is, now that here and there it has come out, or has come out, that widespread sexual abuse has been perpetrated and covered up by institutions who should have helped, and the victims failed so spectacularly, and the criminals allowed to remain free, is anything actually going to be done about it? In law, in the cultures, in society, will approaches and attitudes change, will genuine steps be taken to stamp this shit out and lock up the men who are doing it? I really bloody hope so because if these types of situations - the most appalling widespread abuse covered up for years - don't result in action then I can't really see what possibly could.

"The more privileged he is, the more likely the woman has to die before he's held accountable."

There are just no words to answer that sort of comment :(

Its all just so sad. No wants to send their daughters to the rape school. Says it all really. The money and reputation is more important.

Have read it. Sadly, it didn't surprise me at all. Nor did the comments. UVA is merely doing what society at large does all the time, questions the victims, and lets the perpetrator go free.

MEOD take care

The wife of one man who assaulted me told me to forget about it. If anyone was to believe them they are Mr and Mrs Perfect but he is a complete letch and I don't for one second think I was the only one.

I found out 10 years afterwards, that the man who raped me had raped all 6 girls in our friendship group. Including his DSD. The school and SS knew and no one thought to wonder why every girl in our friendship group went massively off the rails within a few months of each other. His DW knew, but still encouraged us all to come over ummm, no

Puffins thats terrible.
I wonder why the wives stand by them.

I don't believe it is better in the UK. There might, possibly, be some divergence in the gender of victims - we're world famous for school buggery - and only our red-bricks have 'fraternities' as such (colleges & houses) with the attendant private clubs of dubious activities. But, overall, you wouldn't find much difference I suspect. Instead of fraternities, we have sport clubs and plenty of other means to collectivise crime. It's bonding, dontcha know.

I'd like to think we have better awareness in the UK, and victims would be more likely to go to the police. But I don't.

""I went to the dean covered in scabs and with broken ribs," Seccuro remembers. "And he said, 'Do you think it was just regrettable sex?'"

You know, if one in four women is seriously sexually assaulted, and each rapist carries out an average six attacks - bearing in mind these were young perpetrators - that means one in 24 young men is a serial rapist.
And grows up to work with young women, get married, have kids ...

There was something in the news recently about the Edinburgh branch of a US fraternity www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30128674 . While I hope there is no systematic gang rape going on here, we are not without our problems of rape and misogyny culture.

UK universities are by no means great. There was a horrible culture of misogyny when I was a student. There was one incident of a video of a girl doing a sexual act in front of lots of boys being circulated. I don't know how much of it was the stuff of legend, but it was the done thing to seek it out, there were rumours of her being so ashamed that she had to leave, ha ha the slut, that kind of thing. I never said much at the time but it is so depressing looking back. One of my friends was sexually assaulted by another friend while she slept; she was angry more than upset; some of our friendship group found it funny. I would immediately end my friendship with someone if they expressed that kind of attitude now. I guess as a student you are still young, impressionable and go for self presevation. You either try to fit in and succumb to peer pressure, or you keep quiet and stay under the radar. I took option b, which I am quite ashamed about. I definitely would have supported a friend who was attacked though, in whatever way they needed me to, so actions of Jackie's friends at UVA make no sense to me.

There are the brave few who make a stand, in student unions etc. Some universities are actively trying to turn the tide; Manchester University has recently launched this campaign manchesterstudentsunion.com/wegetit, zero tolerance against sexual harassment, the seed from which rape culture grows.

I don't want to be all "what about the menz?" but from what I have read I get the impression that there is a huge culture of brutality in conservative American institutions - colleges, military academies etc. These young men will probably have grown up with corporal punishment from their fathers, bullying in their high schools, and a general idea that the fittest survive and it's totally legitimate to get to the top of the heap by abusing people weaker than yourself. So put them in an environment with vulnerable young women, and this is a pretty inevitable consequence.

The other thing I took from that article is the men-pleasing attitude these young women grow up with. So much of it is about having a high-status boyfriend - it's what puts these girls in vulnerable situations and why if they have a "bad experience", their friends won't speak out against the attacker for fear of being ostracised themselves. It's like they'd rather date someone who raped their friend than not get dates.

It's utterly tragic, but it's a far wider and deeper problem than just getting more victims to report sexual assaults.

"How scary is it to think that UVA graduates are working in hospitals & are lawyers, working with the ill & vulnerable..." Yep. Fucking frightening. And as Zazzles says the number who've been convicted since leaving UVA would suggest that this isn't a moment in time issue either. The attitude towards women remains. I wonder how many go on to be abusive husbands/partners/fathers too.

"The other thing I took from that article is the men-pleasing attitude these young women grow up with." Yes I got that too. And the men's assumption and entitlement to this.

Thanks for the link to Lisak rootypig. Really interesting.

Amethyst yes that puts me in mind of an article I read about men being raped in the US military. It was utterly harrowing. One of the men who told his story was put in with Jeffrey Dahmer and was locked in with him every night for months - ages I forget how long - and he reported it and nothing happened. Apparently he is the only man to survive being assaulted by Dahmer.

It's a toxic mix of stuff really isn't it. And how these institutions cover up and close ranks as a matter of course. Look at all the stuff around Deepcut.

All of these institutions all around the world where this is happening or has happened - this turning away, victim blaming, covering up - whether it's religious organisations, universities, police forces, the BBC, political parties, social services, whoever it is it needs to be exposed and fixed.

I suppose that we are starting to hear about all of this stuff is good in a way as it's coming out into the open,the next step is to excise the problem and ensure it stops.

That article is so horrific on so many levels. My heart goes out to all the women who've been victimised. And I have no words for what I'd like to do both to the perpetrators and to those in positions of power engaged in a shocking institutional cover-up. I think Caillin's absolutely nailed it when she points out that the men now in positions of power were once undergraduates at those very fraternities where rape is part of the hazing rituals - there are very obvious conclusions to be drawn as to why they are so invested in a massive cover-up.

I know it stems from the US paranoia (born out of the political conditions under which they fought for freedom from the Brits) of centralised power and state oppression - but I think a major part of the problem is this whole weird business of having campus police and campus disciplinary procedures, instead of just reporting this sort of crime to the real police. I'd like to see a poster in every women's toilet cubicle on every campus in the US saying "Been raped? Been sexually assaulted? It's not your fault. It is a crime. Phone 911 and talk to the real police."

I know there is a big problem with sexual violence at UK universities, particularly within sports clubs, but does seem to me that there's an extra dimension in the US - the whole culture of "omerta", the weird business of encouraging victims to rely on internal university discplinary proceedings, the way it's entrenched in frat culture as part of the hazing rituals. It's just vile.

I had a friend tell me 'you've had loads of boyfriends...what do you expect?' She was lonely - had never had a serious boyfriend at the age of 25 - and told me that on balance, I probably had it better than her, since I've had the chance to experience sex and all, and you got to take the good with the bad.

That was probably the worst response I got, but of all the friends I told, only the men were outraged/encouraged me to report. Women are far more likely to either victim-blame or make some bland comment along the lines of 'well, that's terrible, but you gotta move on'.

I know the thread has moved on but just had to respond on that point. I don't know how friends would respond now but when we were all early 20s I looked to male friends for support, on the whole, the girls didn't want to know.

it's a far wider and deeper problem than just getting more victims to report sexual assaults - Totally agree with this, and that it's a good thing this stuff is starting to make its way out into the sunlight. Attitudes will not change as long as they're silently tolerated.

UVA Suspends Fraternities

A couple of things found on google:

www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/rape-at-uva-readers-say-jackie-wasnt-alone-20141121

Recounting of a UVA rape case and how it was handled MASSIVE TRIGGER WARNING

I went to a university very similar to UVA. I do think the fraternity culture at many of our universities is absolutely vile. It's blisteringly, cheerfully misogynist, and it's also very depressing how the sororities support and help to legitimize it. (I don't mean the sororities are to blame.)

I don't think the Greek system was ever progressive, obviously actually that makes me laugh to even imagine and it certainly always reinforced sexist gender norms, including what young privileged men should be able to get away with, in all sorts of areas, but I also don't think it used to be this extreme. Hearing/reading accounts of what Greek life is like now, the ever-reinforced expectation that everyone will drink and do drugs and have random sex just constantly, and casually ... it feels incredibly hardcore to me. I went to a big state university and I don't think I'm that shockable re: ordinary student behavior; I don't expect college students to be angels; I wasn't. I just also don't expect them to embrace what really looks to me (okay yes this does sound prudish) like depravity. I wonder whether rape has become more common as our entire sexual culture has become more extreme.

I really don't think mainstream or Greek university social life used to be like this. There's no reason for it to be like this, this was genuinely not the original point of fraternities/sororities/eating houses/etc. So I wonder -- is it that each generation has the natural impulse to find new extremes, and so our young people go further and further just to find the edge? Or is our entire culture more fiercely and/or more openly misogynistic than it was 100 years ago? Is this an unconscious or semiconscious sort of furious backlash assertion of white male privilege against the advance of equal rights for women, people of color, gay and transgendered people, etc.?

The other very depressing thing that has occurred to me is that perhaps in fact the current culture re: male privilege, sex, and rape isn't really that different at all from how it used to be. Maybe the only thing that's different is how openly we celebrate institutionalized misogyny now.

But I think that, and then I think, no, that can't be right; it's been openly celebrated in various spheres for fucking ever. The last time any broadly effective cultural progress feminism achieved was in the 1990s, imo., and I think we have paid for that progress so dearly since then that in some ways we have actually gone backwards.

Sorry these posts were so rambly, I can't seem to organize my thoughts very well on this.

Zazzles - only just started reading the follow-up Rolling Stone article you linked to, but one thing just jumped out at me: "For privacy reasons (I didn't want future employers to Google me and see that I brought forward rape charges)"

Fucking hell - do they have no anonymity for victims in the USA? So victim blaming and rape myths mean if your rapist is found not guilty, you're automatically tarred with "she's one of those nasty wimmin who makes up malicious rape charges" and no employer will look at you. Words fail me.

KeatsiePie I agree. I think that we have gone back in certain areas. We make steps forward in one area and then the backlash ensures we go backwards in other areas. It's like we are treading water all the time.

Men don't want to give up their privilege. The Greek system etc are examples of that. And as cailindana implied unthread, men don't only look after their own that also uphold and support the systems which give men privilege. And it is a conscious decision by them to do this.