Oh fuck off... Superheroes for CIN

[TallulahTwinkletoes]

Just picked up DD from CM and have been told it's superhero day for children in need 'but the girls can just go as princesses'. Ermmm fuck off. If it's superhero day, she goes as a superhero. What do I do now? Buy a superhero outfit and probably exclude her from the girls or follow like a sheep and let her be a beautiful princess? I'm sure she would live both...

ARGH

Why aren't the little boys given the option of dressing as princes?

Do you think it would be OK to give black children a "special costume option". If so why not?

If it was dress up as a princess day or as a fairy day and they said children or boys can just go as pirates if they want to, would you get upset over that as well?

WHy would they boys be pirates instead of princes? The exact male equivalent. Why should the girls not be allowed to be pirates?

Basically since this seems to be very difficult for some of you..

You do "princes/princesses and pirates"

You do not do Pirate and princess. This is because boys know they are not supposed to be princesses. As princesses are sex specific. It is also obvious to the girls which ones they are supposed to be (because it is sex specific. )

You do not give lazy gender stereotyping options to the children. That's all. It's not hard to not be sexist. Some of you act like people are trying to ban you dressing your daughters as giant pink fluffy fucking nightmares. No one is stopping you. Some of us just want our children to not be forced fed lazy stupid stereotypes by those who can't spare enough creativity to think a girl might want to be a super hero or a boy might want to be a prince.

Pffffft. My 5yo ds would be quite happy to dress up as a princess. He does quite frequently with the various dress up play stuff we have. He has asked for (and is getting, although he doesn't know it yet obviously) Frozen dolls for Christmas. (and yes, stbx will probably lose grip on reality that ds2 is getting dolls as a gift, but I don't really care - it's what he asked for) But he's also asked for superhero action figures. (I suspect there's going to be an Elsa vs Spiderman showdown, the way I'm seeing it! )

My dd is 29 now, but as a child she hated pink (still does actually). She was quite happy to dress up as a princess, but in blue thank you very much. Then she went outside and played in the mud with her trucks and fire engines and was hanging upside from the trees in the garden. Not the most princess-like behaviour I suppose, but there you go.

Personally, I think people sometimes get so hung up on gender stereo typing being offensive that they read far too much into every little thing. Nobody is saying the girls HAVE to be a princess. Nobody is saying the boys CANNOT be a princess. FFS get a grip.

I am not bothered if my dcs want to wear fancy dress as princesses, cowboys, superheroes, nurses, doctors, firemen, princes, pirates... whatever! (although I certainly don't want to shell out a fortune for all those costumes!!)

But why so frothy? What if your dd WANTS to be a princess? Are you going to let her? Or steer her to something that's YOUR idea of appropriate? isn't the whole point to allow them to make their own choices, even if what they choose isn't what you would choose or what you want them to choose?

Girls don't HAVE to be princesses... but there's nothing wrong if they WANT to be one either.

WHy would they boys be pirates instead of princes? The exact male equivalent. Why should the girls not be allowed to be pirates?

Let's not froth over that, eh? It was a simple example ... nothing more. Pardon me for not choosing "prince" to suit your sensibilities.

If she wanted to be a princess (which I thought se would because she loves them) then she would be a princess and as she has two princess dresses it would have saved me two late nights making a cape.

My point is clearly lost on some posters. I've stated it above, I'd only be repeating myself so I won't re write it. tiredness has taken over.

DDs cape...

Ps she loves pink. It's her absolute favourite. She loves sparkles. She loves princesses. That's her choice. She also loves mud, toy cars, dinosaurs and superheroes. That's also her choice. She doesn't conform because no ones told her she should.

She doesn't conform because no ones told her she should.

And that's great. And the cape is lovely, by the way, I imagine she'll love it.

Still struggling to see why you're so irate over it all though.

I'll stop being irate about things such as this, when stops being the world our children inhabit.

They don't live in vaccums. They are bombarded by media messages telling them girls need to be decorative and boys need to be protagonists, and to support and reinforce that message leaves them with no alternative.

At this moment, there are more male MPs than there have been women MPs, ever. The fact some people don't understand why it's not ideal, in that world, to teach girls to be princesses awaiting their prince, while boys try to save the world... well, I think that's a big part of the problem.

You can't be what you can't see. Representation matters.

Or even in vacuums.

I've got girl boy girl who are 11, 9 and 7. DD1 is CatGirl in her black dancing gear with a cape I made by chopping the front out of an old t shirt of mine, ds is called Archie (outs self) but his mates call him Farchie so he's Super Farchie with a suitably lettered t-shirt, dd's leggings, some bright yellow boxers and a cape and dd2 is Pow Girl - pink leotard and cape, black skirt and leggings. It cost me nothing thankfully. I'll try and post a pic in a bit, they'll look a proper motley crew, but who cares?

Alice, the reason some of us get "frothy" is because some of us are actually aware that all of the research shows that it does make a fucking difference. Happy for you that you think it doesn't.

You daughter is 29, she is nearly my age. It has been show time and time again that things have become worse for girls regarding pinkification. If you wanted to buy your daughter a pram..it would have been available in.. PRAM colours. Not pink. If you bought garden toys they would have been red yellow green. Not pink.

Girls learn pink princess shite is for them and when they research for science or interesting toys they see they are not available in their colours. So then what?

Rather than get forthy yourself about something you don't even think matters..why not look in to a it a bit?

I get your issue Tallulah My girls have gone as strong female historical figures and I'm happy about that. The older one came up with her idea on her own and the younger was helped by her older brother. I am lucky in that they have never been in to pink. I find it astonishing how shops have pink/blue sections these days and that it is worse then when I was small (42).

FOG Actually there were loads of "pink princess shite" items available when dd was young. She chose stuff according to what she thought was interesting, not just because it was girly. She likes dresses, hates makeup and heels. She played with cars, trucks, science and sports stuff, as well as dolls when she was little. She was just as happy playing with matchbox and lego and tool toys as she was with kitchen playsets. If she'd wanted pink stuff, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. It's just a colour - it's not a lifestyle.

Ds2 (5yo) has blue as his favourite colour, but pink runs a close second. He loves princess stuff, cars, spiderman, Violet is his favourite Incredible (he loves to pretend to be her), ironman. He has a pair of fancy gloves with fur trim that DD gave him last year that he puts on and pretends to be Elsa from Frozen. He has barbies and transformers. He got a kitchen set for christmas 2 years ago as that's what he wanted.

I think that you just expose them to all the different stuff and let them choose. If they choose the princess stuff, fine. If they don't, fine.

Interesting that people assume because I don't agree with their viewpoint that I haven't "looked into it a bit." Arrogant, much? I have, and I prefer to choose my battles. Toy shops can offer what they like. I will buy what the dcs like. But the toy shops generally stock what people are buying, so I'd say if there's a section of pink "girly" stuff then it's probably being purchased by someone. And that's fine too.

That's exactly it Alice. Pink is fine, princesses are fine. If she likes it, she can play with it.

Hmm. I hate the whole princess as an alternative concept too. I remember doing a pirate party for my sons and someone suggesting I add princess as an option for girls - but I couldn't see why they wouldn't enjoy dressing as pirates so I ignored that particular suggestion (I was right btw!)

However, schools etc often get criticised for expecting parents to magic up costumes for these days and I expect the motivation of the comment was to provide you with an easy alternative that you might likely have at home anyway. Rather than you feeling obliged to buy/make something specially for the occasion that might not get used again.

Having had to make spotty things specially for my boys last year, I'd have been quite grateful if they'd say said come in stripes instead if you want.

Our school handled it better I think - they said dress as "a hero" - there were all sorts of interpretations of that in school this morning from Florence Nightingale to footballers.

My DDs just went in regular clothes with capes. DD1 dressed in a green outfit and with a green towel as a cape - she is calling herself Earth Defender. DD2 is wearing a Moshi Monster dress and leggings with her Moshi Monster pillowcase as a cape. She is Super Moshi. Both capes attached with hair bobbles. Job done.

I would be pissed off with girls being told they can "be princesses instead", but the reality is that sadly, as far as dressing-up clothes available in shops, the boys' outfits are generally pirates and superheroes while the girls get fairies and princesses. So a lot of girls simply won't have a superhero outfit available. Not all kids are happy to wear an old pillowcase like mine and most parents can't afford to buy a new outfit just for one day at school. So the school giving the option of girls being princesses is just a symptom of the reality that gender-sterotypical children's toys and dress-up clothing, in addition to most superheroes being male, means that girls generally won't have anything to wear for "superhero day".

Interesting that people assume because I don't agree with their viewpoint that I haven't "looked into it a bit." hmm Arrogant, much? I have, and I prefer to choose my battles.

It's not interesting. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Because if you have looked in to it you'd know that the reasons billions of pounds are spent on advertising is because children are incredibly susceptible to outside influences.

There was NOT as much pink shite when your daughter was young. There just wasn't. And your son might happy being a princess now, but I'm assuming that unless he makes a real lifestyle decision that will be beaten out of him before long. I guess you will say that's just chance and he chose to stop liking pink sparkly stuff though

www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/why-it-matters/

Also why is it always though who don't think it matter or who "prefer to pick their battles" spend the most time arguing that it doesn't matter?

Why argue about something that doesn't matter?

There was NOT as much pink shite when your daughter was young. There just wasn't.

Wow. You are making an awful lot of assumptions. You know pretty much fuck all about how much pink shite there was when my daughter was young. Unless of course you grew up in the states as she did. There was, there "just was" thank you very much.

And your son might happy being a princess now, but I'm assuming that unless he makes a real lifestyle decision that will be beaten out of him before long. I guess you will say that's just chance and he chose to stop liking pink sparkly stuff though

Well, there are those assumptions again. Not sure what the blazes you are implying when you say "will be beaten out of him before long". If it makes you feel better, from your lofty perch, it was his FATHER that was physically abusive to him, which is why I kicked him out. No beating here, thank you very much. So kindly watch your choice of words.

His 8yo brother likes pink sparkly stuff and sometimes chooses that as well. Why would I care, as long as he's happy. Oh, and the real lifestyle decision?? What's that supposed to be? What kind of lifestyle decision has anything to do with what colour clothing someone wears?? Unless of course you are being homophobic, in which case, that's pretty offensive.

Because if you have looked in to it you'd know that the reasons billions of pounds are spent on advertising is because children are incredibly susceptible to outside influences.

I have looked into it. They are also affected by their parents' biases. You know.. like yours...

Born and raised in America actually.

Dressing like a woman has nothing to do with sexuality. so I'm not sure why You would call me homophobic.

Also a victim of paternal violence since you seem to see that as some sort of trump card. Try and use logic though in the future.

Well, then I'm at a complete loss as to your vitriol, to be honest. You accuse me of not knowing whether or not there was a lot of pink sparkly girly stuff available when my dd was young, which baffles me. Stick to your own experience and stop trying to tell me mine.

I didn't call you homophobic. I asked if your comment was meant to be homophobic. That means I didn't really know what the blazes you were getting at when you said unless he makes a real lifestyle decision. If you want to make vague throwaway comments like that, feel free, but expect people to not really understand what you're going for and have to use some interpretation. Otherwise try being clear.

I did not state that paternal violence was a trump card. I simply resented you saying And your son might happy being a princess now, but I'm assuming that unless he makes a real lifestyle decision that will be beaten out of him before long which quite frankly is offensive and a poor choice of words on your part. If you meant something else, say something else. You brought violence into the conversation, not me.

I can't be arsed to even bother to discuss this with you any longer. I simply cannot understand the vitriol you aimed at me because I've stated that I don't get why people are so upset over it. You obviously are far more invested in this than is healthy, so I'm out and hiding thread.