Why dress like this?

[Spidergirl8]

I feel very depressed that more and more female celebrities decide to dress like this. These celebrities, like it or not, are role models for many girls and I feel it sets a very scary tone for what young girls may aspire too.

I do believe everyone has freedom of choice and can wear what they want, but I think that more often than not, this type of outfit is done as a publicity stunt.

Am I being too harsh, or does anyone agree?

When I was young and wore skimpy clothes I never found it disempowering, quite the opposite. It feels good to show off a body you are proud of. As long as women have full choice about what they wear, there isn't a problem.

Aphrodites, I don't think skimpy clothing means less talent than fully covering clothing.

No but it shouldn't be a replacement for it either.

People seem to think the judgement is on how dare she dress like that, she can wear whatever she likes but the fact is she didn't wear those clothes without knowing very well the reaction she would get or 'because she felt like it, it's a calculated move. she's not a naive little girl, her and all the other soft porn 'artists' know very well what they're doing.

YY aphrodites the OP is why dress like this not how dare she dress like this.

KateeGee we'll have to agree to differ on the extent to which the music industry puts pressure on women to appeal to the male gaze, both in general and specifically re Jesy from Little Mix.

You might not care about the answer to why is it outlandish for a man to be dressed like that but for a woman it is not as shocking? but it is a legitimate concern for feminists that women in the public eye are expected to be attractive in a very conventional sense but men are not. Even non-trashy magazines like Vanity Fair do this when they present their covers of the Hollywood hottest or whatever. Just not being forced into making a particular choice does not mean the choice was unconstrained.

Hi Flora,

Oh it's not that I don't care, I completely care, I just don't know the answer myself! I do consider myself to be a feminist, by the way so it is important to me too, which is why I am reading this thread with interest.

If she enjoys dressing up is it a problem?

The question is why is it only women who enjoy dressing up like a sex slave at public events where other people are fully clothed? Why do men not do this?

Is it a problem if it perpetuates a view of women as the sex class? Probably.

If it is only women who choose to do this, then can it be said to be a free choice?

Yes Noble, interesting points that I will have a think about...

As others have already said, it's not that there is a problem that women choose to dress like this, I fully support that women have the right to wear what they want. It is the motivation and the expectation to dress in a provocative way.
I too dressed in a skimpy way when I was younger, why did I do this- on reflection because I wanted to be perceived as 'attractive' and 'popular'. Looking back I felt pressure to fit in and didn't want to be seen as dowdy, I never felt comfortable in the outfits and on nights out I would attract male attention that I sometimes felt overwhelmed by. Yes I had a choice but social pressure, lack of strong female role models and immaturity made my choices flawed.

I don't totally disagree, OP.

"Yes I had a choice but social pressure, lack of strong female role models and immaturity made my choices flawed." I think, while not helped by the misogyny which I completely agree is ingrained in our society, this is part of growing up. Everyone wants to fit in, sometimes that's by standing out, sometimes by trying to blend in and be a bit invisible. I grew up feeling ashamed of my body, mostly as a result of comments from my family, friends, peers and strangers in the street shouting abuse at me. I loved pop music and looked up to women in the public eye but they weren't the ones who did the damage, it was way closer to home. I didn't dress at all in a skimpy way because I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin and I don't have Rihanna's figure so didn't think it would suit me (this latter part is still true). So I would wear clothes that covered me up and I still got lots of unwanted attention from men and people judging my body without me asking them to, and was still made to feel uncomfortable simply for being a woman (or a girl, this shit started when I was very young). So I don't think the clothes themselves are the issue, and I don't think it's the case that everyone dressing in such a way is making a flawed choice, even if that choice is influenced by certain things that we might find unpalatable.

I am interested in the wider impact of it though, beyond the "individual choice" thing, so I am having a good debate with myself about this, this thread has raised things that I haven't really considered.

I appreciate your comments KateeGee, it's refreshing to be able to debate this.
I did have a figure like Rianna's when I was younger, however I had a smaller chest. Initially I hid behind baggy clothes to try and disguise this. Comments were made, was a boy? One time walking back from a work experience week a group of boys followed me through a small village town shouting abuse that I was a bitch about to give birth to puppies, the clothes I wore were so baggy that it looked like I was very large, I weighed less than 8 stone at 5 foot 8.
My father used to hit me in the chest as my breasts were developing as a 'punishment' and my mother refused to buy sanitary towels or bras for me, I had to earn my own money from 15 for this.
Then around 16 some friends said I had a good figure and I thought I would try and show that off, would I be accepted? Then I received comments about being too thin, mainly from women. I was fortunate to be a realtionship with a great young man from 15- 19 so I didn't fall off the rails, but if I hadn't then I may have responded to the male attention I received- though I never really wanted to sleep with men outside of a relationship.
Clothes are a part of self and the image we portray. They often say more about us then we realise, whether this is understood by the wearer is not always clear.
I must add that I love fashion, I have studied it and genuinely enjoy looking at the creativity people exhibit when they dress in an interesting way, whether revealing or not.

"I guess there is not much you can do with a man's clothing without making it look outlandish or extremely camp or fetish-y.

I suppose the question we are asking is why is it outlandish for a man to be dressed like that but for a woman it is not as shocking? "

My take on this would be that a man dressed in similar gear might be perceived as "camp" BECAUSE such clothing is clearly designed for the sexual gaze and the default sexual gaze is assumed to be male...

(Acknowledging Frau Helga's different perspective.)

See, Yonic, I was considering that. with my glasses on

I go to clubs where men and women are dressed equally scantily. I oogle the men quite happily, and my best friend, who is male, oogles the women quite happily.

Have I betrayed womenkind by oogling the men? Am I worse than him for oogling men? Is he worse than me because oogling women is seen to be a societal issue? Am I barred from feminism because I'm oogling the men?

bet you don't want to be inside my head right now

Err, no, you haven't betrayed anyone!

I would've thought the definition of going to clubs like that is to seek out sexual gazes...?

(Do not want to offend you, tell me if I do!)

Have I betrayed womenkind by oogling the men? Am I worse than him for oogling men?

What makes you think so?

Yes, but, am I colluding with the patriarchy and actually conforming to a gender stereotype by oogling at all?

Spidergirl8 that sounds horrible, I'm sorry you went through that.

Yonic if I think about equivalent male outfits, they would be very camp and something only seen in public during Pride. Maybe a Chippendale type outfit would be a straight version. If you picture a topless man surrounded by fully clothed women, that would be a very specific occasion, not an awards ceremony or a mainstream event. It's almost unimaginable that a man who is famous or powerful would be seen in such a way.

Flora - many powerful men are into BDSM. If by powerful you mean CEO's of large companies, politicians, actors, judges and the like. And that's just off the top of my head.

I have never seen a powerful man scantily dressed at a mainstream event or an awards ceremony.

True Flora.

Is that something that mainstream society can take from BDSSM and learn from? That men can be eye candy in just the same way as women and it's ok for a man to dress provocatively and half naked?

Or, to repeat what I've already said...

When I am Supreme Ruler of the World >

I'd prefer not to see men or women dressed for sexual gaze when I'm going about my daily business, whether it's men or women. I don't necessarily agree that scantily dressed men in BDSM are dressed for the female gaze but that's another thread.

Who said daily business? I thought we were discussing awards ceremonies and mainstream special events?

I am not sure whether men being objectified is a solution, the ideal is that men and women can just 'be'- but this is an ideaology.

I think that there is nothing wrong with men and women looking at other people and finding them attractive, that is desire. However to actively pursue this attention because you feel you have to, or can only gain a sense of self by feeling wanted is not a good thing. Currently, I view this as being a mainly female issue.

When men have dressed in a provocative way, or shown to take a lot of interest in how they look, they are often mocked for showing femine traits or said to be homosexual. Again, picking up on the male gaze comment posted earlier- women dress provocatively = wants men and sex, man dress proactively = a joke, homosexual or a one off PR stunt. IMO
Imagine Tom Cruise and David Beckham wearing say, leather chaps with a thong underneath and nipple tassels whilst leaning on each other at a film opening.....

I should add, I summarise the above as social perception, not my view!

Photos and films from high profile events are in the mainstream news / press etc. I also prefer not to see sexual objectification at mainstream special events. If an event is black tie, for example, I wouldn't want the men showing up in just a tie.